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Pathfinder 1E Paizo and 5e

JoeGKushner

First Post
Uneless WoTC is outsourcing and PAYING Paizo, I see no reason why they would stop developing Pathfinder.

Can I see some conversions of some of their books? Yes.

Do I see it happening? No.

Even prior to the 4e restrictive license, many companies found that relying too heavily on WoTC, as with the 3.5 release, was not necessarily a 'good' thing. Just ask Green Ronin, Atlas, and others who were boned for their troubles.
 

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Argyle King

Legend
I imagine Paizo's morning meeting today will be an interesting one.


I imagine some of the staff at Paizo had a better idea of when 5th Edition would be announced than some of the former WoTC staff did.

Why? It's been heavily implied that work on 5th Edition has been going on for a little while (at least a year, but I'd bet money on before Essentials.) IIRC, Monte Cook was still (at least casually) involved with some of the Paizo crowd at that time.
 

ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
I can't really see them doing this, at least not in-house. This is the sort of thing that they'd maybe (maybe) consider licensing out to someone else to take care of, if prior history is any indication.

Yup. Well Scott, looks like you've got a little more than a year to get your ducks in a row. Play test the hell out of 5E so you can figure out how those conversions are gonna work...;)
 

Dannager

First Post
Yup. Well Scott, looks like you've got a little more than a year to get your ducks in a row. Play test the hell out of 5E so you can figure out how those conversions are gonna work...;)

If I had my way, I'd throw together a crack team of up-and-coming design rockstars to convert Pathfinder APs to 5e, with at least three available the day 5e hits shelves. But that would require licensing (a Paizo willing to play ball, and a 5e 3pp license that allows it), and time, and early (early) access to the 5e final rules, not to mention a bunch of amateur designers looking to make a name for themselves.

But it certainly sounds nice... :yawn:
 

ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
If I had my way, I'd throw together a crack team of up-and-coming design rockstars to convert Pathfinder APs to 5e, with at least three available the day 5e hits shelves. But that would require licensing (a Paizo willing to play ball, and a 5e 3pp license that allows it), and time, and early (early) access to the 5e final rules, not to mention a bunch of amateur designers looking to make a name for themselves.

But it certainly sounds nice... :yawn:

Yeeeeeeah....

I'm sorry and the problem is WHAT exactly?

No excuses! Git 'er done Scott!!!

I mean seriously, aside from the possible issues with 5E licensing, this should be doable. I may not like your points or how you make them but I've seen your 4E conversions and they're pretty darn good. And it's not like there won't be a demand.

I hear you though, until everyone finds out where WOTC is going with this new edition it's best to wait see.
 

Dannager

First Post
Yeeeeeeah....

I'm sorry and the problem is WHAT exactly?

No excuses! Git 'er done Scott!!!

I mean seriously, aside from the possible issues with 5E licensing, this should be doable. I may not like your points or how you make them but I've seen your 4E conversions and they're pretty darn good. And it's not like there won't be a demand.

I hear you though, until everyone finds out where WOTC is going with this new edition it's best to wait see.

I won't pretend I wasn't kept awake last night mulling over how it might be done (in the event that today's announcement was 5e). But a lot of things would need to work out properly.

The two big challenges I can see are licensing (more on the Pathfinder side than the WotC side, as I sort of suspect that we'll see a 3pp license from WotC that can allow this to happen) and finding at least a couple of guys who have serious design chops (they'd need to be able to pick up a system and understand it in a very short turnaround, and then be able to create new content in that system under some fairly rigid guidelines) and are willing to work at something with a level of dedication commensurate with a part-time job but do it all for no guaranteed pay off beyond design credits.

Basically, people with a crazy-person commitment to making D&D awesome, for whom making money would just be a nice side perk.

I should probably keep an eye on this year's RPG Superstar contest. Just in case.
 
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Azgulor

Adventurer
Obviously this will all be wild speculation at this point. But what might Paizo's role be with 5e (or whatever the new iteration of D&D ends up being called)?

I think what there role should be is "Continuing to kick the crap out of D&D".

Kidding & snarkiness aside, seriously folks, why should Paizo role over & jump on the 5e bandwagon? Several problems with this:

1. You're assuming that it'll even be an option. The GSL was an abomination compared to the OGL from a 3PP perspective. 4e, as a viable Hasbro product, was effectively called a failure today. The fanbase is fractured, Mr. Mearls says 4e over-empowered players at GM's expense, and WotC hasn't been able to produce decent adventures to dent Paizo's AP & Module lines. I think it's possible, perhaps even likely, that they'll court 3PPs this go round, but I seriously doubt they'll embrace an OGL that they discarded. Expect a less-restrictive GSL.

2. Paizo, by their own statements, had their best year in 2012. The Pathfinder business model is working, whereas the 4e business model wasn't. When you're firing on all cylinders, you don't throw your business plan out the window on the chance, your biggest competitor may make a good competing set of products.

3. Brand loyalty doesn't trump product quality, despite the "I'll play anything that has D&D as its name" crowd. Once upon a time, IBM mainframes were the pinnacle of computing and the expression "You can't get fired for buying IBM" was gospel. And then came the personal computer... Could WotC & D&D recapture the lightning in the bottle? Sure. Could Paizo supplant D&D as the "gateway drug" of RPGs? Yes. And right now, it's got momentum and a weakened competing game/brand in its favor.

4. Paizo has put a lie to the theory that adventures don't sell. Perhaps the older 20-30 page module doesn't sell like gangbusters, but APs are still the leading brand for Paizo. 5e doesn't just have to fulfill the stated design goals, it has to recapture lapsed fans, but also provide setting and adventure material that is at least enticing enough to make GMs want to run it.


Does Paizo have to continue to execute and adjust as necessary if 5e is a huge success? Absolutely. However, I hardly think that they need to fold on Pathfinder, throw control over their own destiny out the window, and hitch there fortunes to the 5e bandwagon.
 

delericho

Legend
If I were Paizo, I would basically continue doing exactly what they're currently doing. Their model works, so there's no pressing need to change it.

What I would do, is keep a very close eye on the 5e playtest and the reactions to it in the fanbase.

1) If 5e starts to look like it's going to flop, Paizo should start positioning themselves as the alternative, with a view to trying to convert some of the 4e players. One possible way to do this is an "Unearthed Arcana" type book, showing how to bring some of the 4e-isms into PF.

2) If 5e looks like it's going to succeed, but not really unify the fanbase, and not really impact PF, they should just stay the course. It would certainly be preferable to them to avoid joining their company's fate to another company's product. (Also, bearing in mind that if they cease PF to switch to 5e, they probably wouldn't then be able to resurrect PF later.)

3) If, and only if, 5e looks like being a runaway success and has awesome mechanics and is open via the OGL (or equivalent - but not the d20 or GSL licenses), then Paizo may well want to switch. But that bar for doing so is very high, since it closes the door on Pathfinder, probably permanently.

I think it's highly unlikely that Paizo will support both Pathfinder and 5e, even if the licensing arrangements make this viable. At best, I can see them hosting fan-made conversions of their APs for 5e on their site.
 

Dannager

First Post
I think it's highly unlikely that Paizo will support both Pathfinder and 5e, even if the licensing arrangements make this viable. At best, I can see them hosting fan-made conversions of their APs for 5e on their site.

This is sort of where I imagine it ending up. If Paizo's strategy remains (as it originally was) to sell adventures and setting material and support those sales by providing rules, then providing token (aftermarket) support to 5e seems like a good idea. But if their strategy has changed (as I imagine it must have) to include selling the Pathfinder rules as their own self-contained product independent of the adventures, then it makes less sense to do something that might give the competition a little extra juice.

That said, Paizo staff does tend to take the stance of "What's good for WotC is good for all of us," so it's really hard to nail down where exactly they stand without getting the word straight from the horse's mouth.
 


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