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PF2E Paizo Announces Pathfinder 2nd Edition!

Paizo has just announced the Second Edition of its Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! Read on for the announcement straight from the horse's mouth. The horse, in this case, being Pathfinder designer Jason Bulmahn. "In 2008, Paizo launched an unprecedented public playtest aimed at updating the third edition rules to make them more fun, easier to learn, and better able to support thrilling fantasy adventures. More than 40,000 gamers just like you joined in the fun by playtesting the new Pathfinder RPG rules and providing feedback, and the rest is gaming history. Now, 10 years later, it's time to put the lessons of the last decade to use and evolve the game once again. It's time for Pathfinder Second Edition!"


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Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.



Illustration by Wayne Reynolds​
[h=2]New, but the Same[/h]Our first goal was to make Pathfinder Second Edition feel just like the game you know and love. That means that as a player, you need to be able to make the choices that allow you to build the character you want to play. Similarly, as a Game Master, you need to have the tools and the support to tell the story you want to tell. The rules that make up the game have to fundamentally still fill the same role they did before, even if some of the mechanics behind them are different.
[h=2]Building a Character[/h]It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.
[h=2]Playing the Game[/h]We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!
Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!
[h=2]Monsters and Treasure[/h]The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.

First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.

This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!

Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.

Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.
We can't wait until you find your first +1 longsword to see what it can do!
[h=2]What's Next?[/h]There are a lot of things we are excited to show off, so many in fact that we have to pace ourselves. First off, if you want to hear the game in action right now, we've recorded a special podcast with the folks from the Glass Cannon Network, converting the original Pathfinder First Edition Module, Crypt of the Everflame, to the new edition. Head on over to their site and listen to the first part of this adventure now!
Stop by tomorrow for the first blog taking an in-depth look at Pathfinder Second Edition, starting off with the new system for taking actions, then visit us again on Friday for an exploration of the Glass Cannon game, exploring some of its spoilers in detail!
[h=2]We Need You![/h]All of us at Paizo want to take a moment to thank you, the fans, players, and game masters that have made this exciting journey a possibility. It's been a wild ride for the past decade, and speaking personally, I could not be more excited for where we are heading. But, as I am sure you've heard a number of times already, we cannot make this game without you, without your feedback and passion for the game. Thank you for coming with us on this adventure, thank you for contributing to our community, and thank you for playing Pathfinder.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Features[/h]The new Pathfinder Playtest rules are the first step in the evolution to the new edition. We have incorporated the best innovations and lessons of the last 10 years to move the game forward in new and exciting ways. As we count down the days to the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook release, we'll be revealing more information on the following topics (and more!) on the Paizo blog:

  • 10th-Level Spells and 4 Spell Lists
  • Alchemists in Core
  • Archetypes and Multiclassing
  • Class Changes
  • Classic Monsters and Magic
  • Clean, Modular Information-Based Design
  • Combat Maneuvers that Rock
  • Designed for All Levels of Play
  • Easier to Play
  • Goblin Player Characters
  • Golarion-Infused
  • Heroic Storytelling
  • Innovative Initiative
  • More Customization
  • New Background System
  • Pathfinder Society
  • Production Values
  • Race Changes and Feats
  • Rebalanced Magic Items
  • Simplified Actions
  • Streamlined Proficiencies
  • Support
  • True to Pathfinder
  • Wayne Reynolds Art

[h=2]Compatibility?[/h]The big question -- backwards compatibility? Paizo says "While many of the rules of the game have changed, much of what made Pathfinder great has remained the same. The story of the game is unchanged, and in many cases, you can simply replace the old rules with their new counterpart without having to alter anything else about the adventure. As for individual rules, like your favorite spell or monster, most can be added with a simple conversion, changing a few numbers and rebalancing some of the mechanics."
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Products[/h]All Pathfinder Playtest products will be released as FREE downloads exclusively at paizo.com on August 2, 2018. On the same day, we'll release limited-edition print versions of the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook, Pathfinder Playtest Adventure, and Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack for players and Game Masters seeking the ultimate playtest experience. These print editions will be available for preorder from local retailers now and paizo.com between March 20 and May 1. We'll also have copies at the Paizo booth during Gen Con 2018 in Indianapolis on August 2–5.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook[/h]This massive 400-page rulebook contains everything you need to create characters and run Pathfinder Playtest adventures from levels 1–20! With gorgeous new illustrations by Wayne Reynolds, the Playtest Rulebook lights the path leading directly to Pathfinder's future. Available in three editions: softcover, hardcover, and deluxe hardcover with foil-debossed faux-leather cover and ribbon bookmark.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Adventure: Doomsday Dawn[/h]This 96-page super-adventure contains seven multi-encounter scenarios designed to introduce the new rules and put them to the ultimate test on your game table! With adventures spanning all 20 levels and featuring most of the game's newest rules, Doomsday Dawn provides a thrilling tour of the new rules, and of the Pathfinder world itself!
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack[/h]Throw your heroes into the action with this collection of two double-sided Flip-Mats for use with the Playtest Adventure. These beautiful full-color maps measure 24" x 30" unfolded and set the scene for climactic battles that will determine the future of Pathfinder! The maps' erasable surface can handle and dry-erase, wet-erase, or even permanent markers.
[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]
 
Russ Morrissey

Comments

S

Sunseeker

Guest
On the one hand, I think what I enjoy about Pathfinder is that it isn't 5E. On the other hand, this sounds an awful lot like they're simply ripping off 5E to Pathfinder 2.0, which at this stage in the game, I find rather disreputable. It's one thing to learn from your competitors, but this is one of the reasons we got a non-OGL 4E in the first place (an edition I quite liked). It would not surprise me to see WOTC drastically roll back OGL and DMs Guild support after this announcement.

In fact, I don't think there's anything I like about this announcement. I have 5E. I don't need Pathfinder 5E. I was really hoping if they did announce a new edition, it would be something of an improvement, not another clone.
 

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Olaf the Stout

Adventurer
Hmm. As someone who has been playing a lot more 5e than PF lately, this should be right up my alley. It does sound like a reaction to 5e's success and potential player loss. Many of the folks I know who stayed with PF did so because of the micromanagement aspects of the system. They might not be so enthused.

That said, the 3.5 ruleset was really beginning to show its age. Some core features (full actions and the way it gimped melee characters, touch AC, etc) were so unbalanced or unwieldy that each new addition to the rules just compounded the problem even more. So this may very well be the refresh PF needs.

On the other hand, I know quite a few people who have so much invested in PF 1 that I'm willing to bet that this will actually be a short term problem for Paizo. More than one PFS player I know has said (long before this edition was announced), "I've already spent so much that I'm not re-buying everything for a new edition if they make one!" That seems to me to be the biggest hurdle for Paizo: can the new edition offer enough difference and improvements to compel present players to buy, while not changing so much as to lose the discrete and granular nature of a PF game. I'm glad I'm not the person that has to walk that tightrope!
I can definitely see the Sunk Cost Fallacy being a problem to overcome. I played almost no 4E D&as because I’d already spent so much money on 3.xE books and felt like I hadn’t got my money’s worth out of them by the time 4E came out (and also, the cracks in the 3.xE game still seemed small enough for me to paper over them.

By th time 5E came out I’d felt like I’d got my money’s worth out of the books I’d bought and the system cracks had become really large and obvious for me at that point, especially in regards to high level play.

Paizo has released that many books for Pathfinder that the hard core gamers will have Pathfinder book collections that would make my 3.xE collection look tiny. So it will be a significant hurdle for Paizo to overcome.
 

Saelorn

Hero
Except Logan pretty much disagrees with that.
He's talking about Pathfinder, where damaging mental spells are virtually unheard-of. The only one in the Core Rulebook is level 5 nightmare, which only deals 1d10 (relatively minor) damage. Pathfinder doesn't really go for psychic damage as a type.

It's a far cry from 4E or 5E, where characters flat-out have psychic powers that they use for the primary purpose of causing HP damage.

Edit: Although, honestly, that's not as big of a deal as the requirement that psychic attacks must cause physical injury in order to inflict HP damage. If a bard casts a spell that makes a goblin manifest fatal wounds, then that's still infinitely preferable to a goblin just dying for no physical reason.
 

Feeroper

Explorer
Very excited about this! I Like Erik Mona's response here - not trying to make this a 5e clone but rather the best version of Pathfinder. Clearly anyone putting out a new fantasy based D20 game is going to be informed by success stories like 5e and Pathfinder, but at this point I think Paizo has differentiated themselves enough from D&D to co-exist and fill a need that they specialize in.

I love 5e and I love Pathfinder so I'm super pumped to see what they have in store here. Cant wait for Gen Con! Thanks to Paizo there is always something exciting going on at Gen Con.
 

Tranquilis

First Post
Just wanted to chime in here to say that the depth of options in character creation and advancement is a core principle of Pathfinder's design philosophy, and that has not changed with the new edition. If anything, there are even MORE ways to customize your character with the new rules, but we hope that they are better explained and work together a bit more seamlessly than all of that type of stuff does in the current version of the game.
MORE!? I’m one of those crazy folks who think myriad rule-based design options are actually restrictive instead of liberating.

“Oh! My character can do this for sure!”

”Do you have that feat and its prerequisites?”

”Oh... never mind...” :uhoh:
 

Ninneveh

First Post
Ok, first thing that Paizo needs to do. Stop hitting us over the head with exclamation points after presenting every new change in the game. The fake enthusiasm detracts from the product you are trying to sell us. Let us come to our own conclusions that the new edition is better rather than manipulating us into it with disingenuous sales tactics. Secondly as others have echoed, we already have 5e. We do not need a 2nd edition of Pathfinder pandering to those who have gone over to 5e.
 
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Shasarak

First Post
So WotC won the battle with 5e (yeah, yeah, everyone who works at both companies will tell us there never was a battle even if there was one for market shares). Paizo lost market shares.
Did Paizo lose market share? Maybe in a percentage term but seems like not in a gross term.

Is Paizo in trouble? Are you doing this because you HAVE to?

Nope! Paizo is healthier than it has ever been. We have a larger editorial staff than at any time in the past—more than double the size of the staff that produced the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook—and our sales in 2017 were substantially higher than our sales in 2016. We're doing this because it is time to do it, not because we have to.
 

Kurviak

Explorer
Which brings up the question: once PF2 comes out will Paizo continue to officially support PF1? If yes then all PF fans get the best of both worlds.

This to me is a huge mistake WotC has repeatedly made: when 3e came out they produced a 2e-to-3e conversion document and then dropped all support for previous editions like a hot potato; and when 4e came out they kicked 3.5e to the curb (which is why PF exists at all). They dropped 4e when 5e came out but then - oddly enough - kinda waved at supporting 1e via some reprints.

Lan-"and now we need different terms for PF editions [I suggest PF1 and PF2] and D&D editions [I suggest 1e, 2e etc. as now] or this is gonna get real confusing real fast"-efan
In the faq they say all legacy pf 1 content will be available as PDFs for ever
 

Kurviak

Explorer
I really do hope that this is 5e compatible math-wise. I think that there would be a big market for it. It doesn't even need to be compatible character wise. Just rules and math.
Based on the faq and the answers they are giving in paizo’s forum that won’t be the case
 


Tranquilis

First Post
A hit does mean you've been hit. We're pretty quiet on the actual physical effects of that hit (bruising vs. fatigue vs. cracked ribs) unless you get snicker-snacked with a vorpal weapon or something. It generally means your physical wellbeing, but serious mind-affecting magic can deal mental damage to you that manifests as physical harm.
Works for melee, but not ranged.

”But DM, you told me all 8 of my arrows ‘hit’ the knight during the fight this morning! He’s smoozing with the barmaid now!”

”Um...Just a flesh wound?”

HP inflation is a huge problem when finite ammunition is considered.
 

Kurviak

Explorer
Paizo is a small company, I can't imagine once PF2 drops that they will have the resources to support PF1, PF2, and SF. At best, you'll get a 1e-to-2e scenario like how AD&D first edition worked (more or less) with 2nd edition enough that you could use modules, monsters, and such as is, but the character rules didn't mesh well. I'm sure Paizo would love everyone to be able to run Rise of the Runelords in PF2 with minimum effort. We'll see if that's possible.
That’s already answered in their faq, from August 2019 onward they will not be publishing any new pf1 content.
 

darjr

I crit!
Making fun of someone's haircut is not sufficiently serious of mind-affecting magic to cause lethal physical injury.
That’s the verbal component of a spell. Like putting your thumbs together and spreading your fingers is just a funny jesture unless it’s a somatic component of a spell.

Do you also think crushing a cricket is silly and leaned to a wonky game? That’s the the sleep spell.

I don’t get why this verbal component of a spell is so terrible
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest
Ok, first thing that Paizo needs to do. Stop hitting us over the head with exclamation points after presenting every new change in the game. The fake enthusiasm detracts from the product you are trying to sell us. Let us come to our own conclusions that the new edition is better rather than manipulating us into it with disingenuous sales tactics. Secondly as others have echoed, we already have 5e. We do not need a 2nd edition of Pathfinder pandering to those who have gone over to 5e. It looks desperate and pathetic.
You think they aren't actually excited about the announcement? I'm willing to bet they are. I'll have a chance to find out at GaryCon this weekend. But as far as the assumptions of pandering to 5e fans goes, why don't you let the rest of us come to our own conclusions about the next edition rather than be manipulated by your cynicism. It looks desperate and pathetic.
 

Kurviak

Explorer
I find your opinion odd when Pathfinder was basically a 3.55E version of D&D, which was designed by WotC. Now Paizo have announced a Pathfinder 2nd edition which, based only on this article, I can only assume will follow a lot of the 5E design, which WotC also designed.

Now I'm far from a Paizo hater. I have a heap of their books (easily more than any other company outside of WotC) and I was devastated when WotC ended their Dungeon and Dragon magazine licenses as they had done an awesome job with both mags. That said, what they've did with Pathfinder was very much a derivative product of 3.5E and Pathfinder second edition looks like it will be a derivative product of 5E.
Form the info we have in their faq and forum it doesn’t looks it will be based on 5ed at all, more like a cleaner version of what the have already in pf1
 

Igwilly

First Post
Seems good!
I like Pathfinder from the time I read, but not enough to be my go-to system. Perhaps that will change.
Although, I'll skip the playtest and wait for the full release. I do not have the stomach to playtest stuff (of a company) anymore...
 

Kurviak

Explorer
On the one hand, I think what I enjoy about Pathfinder is that it isn't 5E. On the other hand, this sounds an awful lot like they're simply ripping off 5E to Pathfinder 2.0, which at this stage in the game, I find rather disreputable. It's one thing to learn from your competitors, but this is one of the reasons we got a non-OGL 4E in the first place (an edition I quite liked). It would not surprise me to see WOTC drastically roll back OGL and DMs Guild support after this announcement.

In fact, I don't think there's anything I like about this announcement. I have 5E. I don't need Pathfinder 5E. I was really hoping if they did announce a new edition, it would be something of an improvement, not another clone.
You should read the faq and the developers answers both in this thread as in paizo’s forum to see that they are not trying to create something based on 5ed but a better version of the game they created a decade ago based on 3.5
 

darjr

I crit!
I found the video a bit stilted as well, much prompter reading.

However the actual play podcast is hilarious, I haven’t finished it yet but I can’t wait to. I hope it’s as informative as it awesome.

Also I used to listen to the Know Direction folks, anybody know if they have a stream about this up yet? I can’t find it.
 

JEB

Explorer
Huh, they actually did it. This needed to happen, but I'm kind of afraid to look at the response on Paizo's forums. Unless the changes are much more minimal than suggested, I expect some of the veteran players will see this as a huge betrayal.

In any case, the changes sound good, and needed. Changing "race" to "ancestry" is elegant (better than the too-modern "species"). Sounds like they're taking cues from not only 5E (baking backgrounds into character creation) but also 4E (monster roles). This could be pretty cool.

This almost makes me forget that they continue to publish a book with rules for worshiping a child abuse daemon.
 

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