Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Personally, I think WotC is overestimating the popularity of e-zines.

And I think that most of the people going on and on about how horrible this is are overestimating the popularity if Dungeon and Dragon.

 

[Vigilance]

Well, that certainly rings true. I also read the personal letters from some of the long-time staff of Wizards.

To those folks: I ask you to think a bit before you post stuff like that. Do the research and understand who and what you work for. If you find that you don't agree with the philosophy, leave and go somewhere you can believe in.

But please don't write letters because you were told to - without knowing the facts. If you were part of the decision, then you are disgusting and a traitor to our collective conscience. If you were not, then I implore you to leave and work for a company you can feel better about.

Dude, are you for real?

Do you even KNOW how long Kim Mohan was Dragon editor in chief? How much blood, sweat and tears he put into that magazine?

Everyone in that thread except possibly one guy, had a deep personal connection to these magazines.

Traitors?!?!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And I think that most of the people going on and on about how horrible this is are overestimating the popularity if Dungeon and Dragon.

For a magazine with a strong use trend of sharing (as in, one person subscribes, many people read), 1% market penetration (which they have) is actually pretty good.

 

[Vigilance]

It's not only about what was said, but when it was said - after the fact. I'm pretty sure WotC knew what Paizo's big announcement was, and should have coordinated their PR to coincide. To do otherwise in business screams that WotC:

• Didn't expect to have to deal with a huge backlash.
• Is incompetent, marketing-wise.
• Didn't really care what Paizo's timing was.

None of those scenarios make me feel good about WotC.

Or D. Knew a bunch of nerds would lose their minds and give them a few days to exhaust themselves before plunging into the writhing coil.

Which makes the folks at Wizards look way smarter than me.

I say again, no amount of PR would help with people calling Wotc "stupid" and staff that worked for decades on the very magazines that were cancelled "traitors".

Chuck

 

[daemonslye]

What Monte describes below seems to me closest to the mark regarding why WOTC made the change. Yeah, he could be totally wrong. But, if true, it does not strike me that the Company is simply trying to get with the e-World. This would be a rather draconian corporate move no regard about what was best for the consumer (or the industry). The right play would have been to continue the value in both formats, engaging the community regarding preference. Paizo made these properties more valuable in their current form - Why make the change? Read below for Monte's thoughts...

~D

http://p222.ezboard.com/Whu-whu-Dra...yyourturnfrm15.showMessage?topicID=5683.topic

Re: Whu... whu... Dragon and Dungeon to be discontinued
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be willing to bet that there is indeed something keeping them from publishing a new magazine. The absolute smartest thing they could do is to say Dragon and Dungeon are ending, but Wyvern and Labyrinth are starting up the very next month, and even picking up with the same issue numbers. Magazine distributors have monthly "slots" to fill. That's why it's so hard to start a new magazine. It almost has to supplant another one to get a new slot, or you have to go through the major hassle of convincing them to create a new slot. Paizo could just tell its distributors "hey, we're stopping these mags, but here's two others to fill those slots." They could tell their subscribers that Wyvern and Labyrinth subscriptions will just take up where Dragon and Dungeon left off. Sales would still likely decline, but they wouldn't be paying WotC any money, so maybe it would work out OK.

The folks at Paizo aren't dumb. They'd be doing that if they could. So there's really only one explanation. WotC's forcing them to some kind of agreement where they can't put out magazines (maybe for some limited period of time--a sort of non-compete clause lasting a year or two).

Read Paizo's press release for their new subscription product Pathfinder. They're very careful about calling this magazine a "product." It's the only way to get around what must be some kind of restriction.

This also provides us the answer for why WotC would do this. If the magazines were doing poorly, WotC wouldn't care if Paizo put out others. No, it's just the opposite. They're doing well, and likely WotC products--probably specifically adventures--aren't doing as well as WotC wants. There's been some loud voices at WotC crying that Dragon and Dungeon (particularly Dungeon) are too good a value. They're too good for the customer, and smart customers buy them rather than regular products. This was true when WotC put out the magazines, and it's been true under the Paizo banner as well. I'm guessing declining sales gave these voices the evidence they needed to axe the magazines.

Edited by: Monte Cook at: 4/19/07 3:49 pm

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

Once WotC has made up their mind and announced it publicly, I would be surprised if any amount of petitioning would cause them to change that. Reversal is often seen as a sign of weakness. It's not going to happen.

In a capitalist society the most effective way to make your voice heard is through your wallet.

So either you buy their new product (in whatever form) or you don't.

That's it. Nothing more to say.

The End.

 

[Turjan]

I guess Erik Mona has just learned that there is such a thing as being too successful.

 

[Treebore]

And I think that most of the people going on and on about how horrible this is are overestimating the popularity if Dungeon and Dragon.

I was one of 40,000 who bought Dungeon every month.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Once WotC has made up their mind and announced it publicly, I would be surprised if any amount of petitioning would cause them to change that. Reversal is often seen as a sign of weakness. It's not going to happen.

Eh...there are many stories of how a vocal fan base kept something (mostly TV shows) from cancellation or brought it back from the dead- All in the Family, Bab5, Married w/Children, Family Guy, and most recently, Futurama have all faced cancellation and either had it averted or "overturned."

Admittedly, they are the vast minority, but you definitely don't get any results if you don't let your displeasure be known.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I was one of 40,000 who bought Dungeon every month.

Believe it or not, so was I.

BUT, that is a tiny percentage of the players of D&D. TINY. While this may affect the more hardcore types that frequent messageboards and the like, the doomsaying and insults directed at WotC are so overly dramatic that it honestly reflects badly on everyone.