Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon

[Oryan77]

and it's not my job to be printing this crap out (print outs suck too).

And they still charge practically the same price for a pdf as the hardcopy costs. I'll never unsterstand why people keep paying these prices for online file downloads. All it does is encourage things like...oh...say....dumping a magazine title and selling people pdf files instead.

Apparently pirating software must not be as big of a deal as companies whine about because they sure do like to keep pushing file downloads on us rather than sell us a hardcopy. If pirating is hurting their business so bad, you'd think they would prefer to sell hardcopies rather than file downloads.

 

[LordVyreth]

No, it won't be. Worst case scenario, Hasbro sells it off to someone else while it's still valuable and the brand is reimagined, depending on who buys it. It could reappear as anything from a roleplaying game to a better MMORPG to a brand of cereal.

Internationally known properties don't ever languish while there's still value in them. Look at how many movies have been made from old TV shows and the like.

I'm confused about why D&D has to struggle to maintain profitability in the first place. I know a number of third party companies a struggling, but I thought that since 3rd ed, the brand was energized and generally successful. Did that change since then?

And even if it has, are we really talking about something worse than the 2nd ed days? Like you suggested, the worse case is that it gets bought out by someone, preferably someone like the old WotC with an actual interest in the game.

 

[takasi]

For the second part: Quality of the content won't matter if it's (1) electronic-only, and (2) takes a year to get here. It's a poor move on the part of the company to kill all support licenses before there's even product to be made. All of this seems predicated on someone reading the results of the surveys from last year about "premium content", and drawing a VERY bad conclusion from it.

They do have until September. It's not like we're "starving". Who knows what they will launch by then. It could rock. Or not. It's too early to tell.

We're the internet guys who know about this stuff. Most of the players I know won't even know about this for months, and many probably won't figure it out until they get their last issue, or find it on the newstand. This might be the carrot that gets them online, maybe.

And the prisoners. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the poor prisoners!

 

[JoshuaFrost]

On a quasi-related note, does anyone know what the letter designations for the Gamemastery modules are all about? They don't seem to indicate a series of modules.

D--Dungeon
W--Wilderness
E--Event
J--Journey
U--Urban

And so on. So, D1 would be our first Dungeon adventure and W2 would be our second wilderness adventure etc.

 

[billd91]

And they still charge practically the same price for a pdf as the hardcopy costs. I'll never unsterstand why people keep paying these prices for online file downloads. All it does is encourage things like...oh...say....dumping a magazine title and selling people pdf files instead.

Depends. Is the intellectual content worth the price? If so, why not pay more for it? If the extra cost for the printing can be factored out and provide a higher return for the content, I have no problem with that. I'd like to see more of that go on with the recording industry as well.

 

[delericho]

In the summer of 1989, I was stuck on a camp site for several weeks, bored out my mind. One day, I chanced upon Dragon #147 in the camp shop, and persuaded my parents to buy it for me. It was a revelation; finally, someone was writing something specifically for me!

I've been reading Dragon on and off ever since then, and both Dragon and Dungeon have been 'on' since 3rd edition was released. So, that's coming up to 18 years now.

This is like being punched in the gut. Another part of my childhood just died.

So, what to do?

Well, I shall be sure to savour those last few magazines. At least they get to go out on a high note. After that, I'll transfer my remaining subscription to Pathfinder, and see how that is.

But Pathfinder can't take the place of Dragon. Online content can't take the place of Dragon. Hell, an otherwise identical magazine by a different name couldn't take the place of Dragon. So, we'll have to see.

In fact, I'm starting to consider leaving the hobby. The game's just not as much fun as once it was, I've become too wrapped up in the numbers and too uninvolved with the story, and the products haven't exactly been inspiring of late. With the magazines going, that's one less thing holding me here. Maybe the time has come to let it go.

This sucks.

 

[Sammael]

I'm confused about why D&D has to struggle to maintain profitability in the first place. I know a number of third party companies a struggling, but I thought that since 3rd ed, the brand was energized and generally successful. Did that change since then?

I am pretty positive that D&D is profitable. However, since it's owned by Hasbro, which also owns such billion-dollar properties as Monopoly and Transformers, the profit margins may not be large enough.

D&D would be much better off in the hands of a small company, which wouldn't need to work only to sate the shareholders' appetites.

 

[Tzeentch]

Will people pay for "Dragon and Dungeon--just online"? Probably not. They'll have to bundle the Dragon and Dungeon online content with online services, like an instantly-updated rules cyclopedia/character builder, character database, customizable spellbook creator, mapping tools, DM tools, and so on. In order to get subscribers they need much more than just content.

Expect to see most, if not all, of the "value-added" content currently on the WotC site transitioned to their subscription service. If they don't transition the old stuff, certainly don't expect the wealth of free stuff to continue,

Expect to see art budgets for the new subscription service plummet to zero over time as cost-cutting (see what happened to Pyramid for example). More value will be placed on things that don't really cost WotC anything - like subscription-only message boards and developer chats (wonder if the podcasts will be subscriber only, or even Sage Advice heh). Over time the major emphasis will be on stuff you get for free now, but once it's all taken away they can use it to get people to subscribe. Expect to see and unusual number of articles on "using D&D Miniatures in your game" or "how to use Magic cards to generate campaigns" and stuff.

And as others have said, this bodes very ill for the idea that 4th edition will be opened to third parties. So long SRD, we hardly knew ye.

Me? I can't wait. Leafing through literally dozens of books for the one feat you want--and hoping that the printed version is still up-to-date--is just not fun. It's user-unfriendly, cumbersome, and time consuming. Much rather have all that info instantly-accessible and searchable online. Even if I have to pay, oh, five* or ten** bucks a month.

You can get that for free now, on the WotC site. But I'm sure they are VERY happy to know you are going to be willing to pay $10 a month for what was once free content. Next up - subscriber-only errata! :/

 

[morbiczer]

Something else:

I'm usually not the person who does a lot of complaining and so, and I understand that things have to move forward and that the world is everchanging, but this really-really doesn't send a good signal to me about what 4th Edition will be all about.

First the (IMO) terrible new encounter format in WotC's adventures, than the canceling of Dragon and Dungeon, it really looks as if Wizards doesn't want or need my money.

 

[blargney the second]

I'm really going to miss non-OGL content, particularly the very useful Eberron material. I also enjoyed seeing non-OGL classes like Scouts around the magazines.

Looking forward, I really hope that Pathfinder has space in each issue for some non-path-related mini adventures of varying levels. One of the things that I enjoyed the most about Dungeon was the fact that I'd get multiple unrelated adventures in each magazine. Paths are great, but sidequests are important as well!
-blarg