Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon

[Cthulhudrew]

Good, I just wanted to point it out as many people around here I know don't really read the sticky threads.

Sure, not a bad idea. In fact, I'm wondering if we shouldn't maybe post the appropriate section by Morrus here in this thread for people to see, too. Is that allowed, or would that be frowned upon?

 

[smootrk]

I don't really understand the stance of the mods here. I just went over to WotC forums to see how civil and understanding their actual customer base is.... not. The vitriol and resounding descriptions of their pain is played over and over again, with the occasional sycophantic response and minor attack on those 'cry-babies'.

I don't know, here on ENWorld, I just don't see the wolves circling as he describes the situation, and the fear of responding that WotC has expressed to him. Things look a lot nicer around here than on their own boards. I have my own disappointment with the situation, have voiced it, and have expressed how I plan to deal with the situation in the future, but in a civil way. No attacks from me to worry about.

 

[Crothian]

Sure, not a bad idea. In fact, I'm wondering if we shouldn't maybe post the appropriate section by Morrus here in this thread for people to see, too. Is that allowed, or would that be frowned upon?

I have no idea.

 

[Reynard]

Or D. Knew a bunch of nerds would lose their minds and give them a few days to exhaust themselves before plunging into the writhing coil.

self editting

Dragon and Dungeon were important to some people for a number of reasons. Many started with it at the beginning of their days with the hobby. Many continued to read it through years they didn't actually get to play, and made them feel connected to the hobby. You have absolutely no right to judge the appropriateness of their feelings at the loss of those magazines.

The reason why this has been as emotional a response as it has been is because we don't have the information we need to feel secure that this was in any way a good decision my WotC. Hopefully, we'll get that information relatively soon. Hopefully, we'll get a decent explanation why Dragon and Dungeon had to get axed -- not brought back in house, not merged, not put on hiatus, but axed -- to support WotC's plan.

self editting

 

[Dinkeldog]

I don't really understand the stance of the mods here.

If you really don't understand the stance of the mods here, then you have a number of choices:

1) Abide by our wishes.
2) Ask a question in the Meta forum.
3) Leave on your own.
4) Be shown the door.

Dinkeldog
ENWorld Moderator

 

[Turjan]

In any event, this just goes more to the point of what some of us have been saying about the way it's all being handled by both parties. If the people at Paizo (or even just Erik) foresaw the potential outcry from this, and they were prepared to begin rolling out information on their new initiative and have a visible presence to alleviate fears, then how can it not be just a poor PR/Marketing decision on the behalf of WotC not to have done the same?

Just remember that those two parties have quite different interests. One has a lot to lose, the other one a lot to win. Guess who is who. And WotC has months to wait for people to calm down.

 

[smootrk]

If you really don't understand the stance of the mods here, then you have a number of choices:

1) Abide by our wishes.
2) Ask a question in the Meta forum.
3) Leave on your own.
4) Be shown the door.

Dinkeldog
ENWorld Moderator

I didn't say that I don't agree with maintaining a civil discussion. My post was rather even-keeled and non-confrontational, and the comment was really a positive plug for the behavior of most here on ENWorld. Things are way nicer here.

I think you took my response a little out of context, and a little reactionary (and probably justified, given the overall mood from the news). I'll just state that I already understand the general civility rules and follow them to the best of my ability.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

So either you buy their new product (in whatever form) or you don't.

I will. I have just ordered the subscription to Pathfinder.

 

[rounser]

This is a Big Deal guys. It's not just about the two magazines. It's about the philosophy about how the company regards us consumers overall.

As a source of income to be manipulated. Luckily, companies with negative karma sometimes find it bites them in the bottom line once their customers work out what they're about. Sometimes. I doubt it'll happen in this case, because WOTC has no real competitors.

My stockbroker stopped me from making some bad decisions that would have given them quite a large deal of fees in the short term. Thanks to their loyalty to me, I'm now very loyal to them and they probably have a customer for life.

I also learned the hard way after I fell afoul of it personally that manipulating a customer for the good of your company is a very easy frame of mind to fall into without thinking, but is often transparent to those on the receiving end. I don't intend to make that mistake again.

It's an unusual situation WOTC find themselves in, though; they can eliminate what has become what they consider to be a competitor because that competitor is using their IP through their own good will, and most companies cannot do that. In one way, they have every right to take their bat and ball and go home. If not for their decision to lend out the IP in the first place, Dragon and Dungeon might have done a "no longer exist" five years ago.

In another way, the diagnosis suggested by Monte Cook suggests that they're out to cheat their customers out of a good deal out of self interest, which doesn't speak so well of them, and definitely doesn't engender customer loyalty or good feeling towards them. Negative karma, but I doubt it'll affect them in the long term, most of you guys will probably keep buying as always after this thing boils over.

 

[Simplicity]

Email sent to WotC at corporateinfo@wizards.com:

Please add my name to those extremely unhappy about that decision.

I'm surely not going to subscribe to an online mag that I can't bring in the bus or read where I want.

New Coke was a bad marketing decision, but Coke changed it and they became heroes. Should makes you think

Regards,

Joël Paquin

Got a reply: I have forwarded your email to the brand manager for D&D, so he reads your disappointment and feedback.

Those wishing to change their mind could do the same.

Joël

I don't think this genie can be put back in the bottle. Paizo has a way forward that is looking pretty good in comparison to WotCs. Even if Wizards came crawling back to them
and begged them to take back the Dragon and Dungeon brand... Is that really what would
be in Paizo's best interest?

I can imagine that conversation:
"Sorry about stabbing you in the back, and trying to steal your business. We just happened to notice that it wasn't really working out so hot. How about we just pretend it didn't happen? Eh? Pals?"

Paizo would be foolish to trust Wizards again. And quite frankly within a 24-hour period, Paizo has revealed that they can be a true competitor to Wizards (not just a business partner). Well, okay, I guess the GameMastery line has been showing that for a while now. That's not exactly going to encourage Wizards to get back into the relationship. Kick some butt, Paizo.

Amicable. Ha!