Pathfinder 2E Paizo Officially Supporting Foundry, Free Content Ending

kenada

Legend
Just wait until the foundry team decides that an official WoTC license and ability to actually sell WoTC material is the thing to do and all the “free” options are ended there as well.
Foundry isn’t doing this or any of the D&D support. Unlike roll20, you can actually produce and sell your own content for Foundry. From what I understand, the D&D stuff provided by the community already has for-pay aspects to it.
 

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kenada

Legend
Just want to say that I'm not the cheapskate some of you are trying to portray me as being. I will gladly pay for content.
I just don't feel like dancing, making kissing videos, and being a complete corporate fanboy because Paizo has announced that they are going to start charging a premium for something we used to get for free. You know, I'm not going to celebrate just for the chance to give Paizo money. For something I was already getting.
What’s the alternative? Someone else step up to work for free on your behalf? That’s pretty damn entitled.

It's like if your friends had a nice public access TV show they were filming in their basement and they decided to stop doing it (because it's honestly, a lot of work). And then Noah's Arcade comes in to buy it and sell you the episodes, more slickly produced by Rob Lowe. But then Rob Lowe steals your girlfriend, who is a totally rad rocker gal.
So I'm not going to cheer for Rob Lowe, you know what I mean?
This is a terrible analogy.
 

Myrdin Potter

Adventurer
Foundry isn’t doing this or any of the D&D support. Unlike roll20, you can actually produce and sell your own content for Foundry. From what I understand, the D&D stuff provided by the community already has for-pay aspects to it.
You cannot sell anything not OGL-based. So none of the WoTC material. That is what is happening now for Pathfinder 2 - now that official material is available the “free” material is going away.

Foundry does not have a license from WoTC, so they cannot sell official materials. Do not confuse that with automating the rules.
 

Nilbog

Snotling Herder
So the free conversion module is stopping? So now you have the option of converting the pdf yourself, or paying extra for a more advanced official version (with I assume a decent level of support for bugs etc)

While it sucks that you lose something you took advantage of, I don't believe the remaining options are that bad.

For me it's great news, I'm a forever pf2e DM, who is itching to play the game, and my players excuse has always been they don't have the free time to create all the foundry stuff, and they wouldn't use the free module as they said it was too complicated and still left work to be done. No excuse now! Still I'll expect they'll find another one 🤪
 

kenada

Legend
You cannot sell anything not OGL-based. So none of the WoTC material. That is what is happening now for Pathfinder 2 - now that official material is available the “free” material is going away.
No, that’s not what happened. The developer stopped and then Paizo stepped in. He’s not being prevented by Foundry or Paizo from continuing work on his converter. He’s decided not to do APs and adventures anymore because it’s turning into being too much like a job. He’s still going to be doing smaller stuff like modules. Paizo is now going to provide that missing content (and more, it sounds like), but they want paid for the job.

Foundry does not have a license from WoTC, so they cannot sell official materials. Do not confuse that with automating the rules.
You speculated about Foundry’s signing a license with WotC and ending the unofficial support that exists now. Again, that’s not how Foundry works. The unofficial support that’s available, which includes a D&D Beyond importer, is all developed and hosted by third-parties. The Foundry devs could try blocking it on the official package list, but users would still be able to find it via third-party sites like Foundry Hub or by installing directly from the manifest.

Even if WotC did decide to sell premium content on Foundry, I doubt Foundry itself would have anything to do with that. Premium content is also developed and hosted by third parties. As far as I can tell from the license, they don’t even take a cut. It’s very creator-friendly compared to e.g., mobile software ecosystems and the roll20 marketplace.
 
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kenada

Legend
There’s a really good post over on the PF2 subreddit explaining what happened: .

A few things to note:
  • The development of premium PF2 content for Foundry and FryGuy’s stopping development happened independently. My characterization was not correct, but neither is it correct to say that Paizo is killing free content.
  • Foundry got more involved than I expected. They’re moving the PF2 community repo into their own GitLab repo, but it will remain community-driven.
  • The first premium content will be available this Saturday.
  • Foundry posted a FAQ on their site.
 

JThursby

Adventurer
Foundry got more involved than I expected. They’re moving the PF2 community repo into their own GitLab repo, but it will remain community-driven.
There's a reason for this. Here's a chart the PF2e Foundry team put out to show just how ridiculously large the code base has gotten:
1649863431100.png

The scale at which new code and updates to code is done in the system rivals that of Foundry itself. Foundry having the GitLab repo accomplishes a few things:
  • It assures Paizo that Foundry has a stake in the continued maintenance of the PF2e system implementation by assuming responsibility for it. I imagine Paizo did not want another VTT partner to treat their system as abandonware after Roll20 botched things. Foundry assuming nominal responsibility while keeping all the community devs in charge is a best of both worlds scenario.
  • It allows the PF2e devs to work more closely with Foundry for updates and maintenance. With a huge amount of code this is a non-trivial task, every extra bit of coordination helps.
  • It creates a pipeline for community devs to hear about future Paizo partnership products and do paid commission work for it. Paizo can order a VTT version of an AP from Foundry and provide assets like art and music, and Foundry will hire devs from the community to create the maps, npcs, etc. Empassioned devs do a good job and get paid, Foundry keeps everything working and gets paid, Paizo makes the original APs and gets paid, everybody wins.
 

kenada

Legend
It creates a pipeline for community devs to hear about future Paizo partnership products and do paid commission work for it. Paizo can order a VTT version of an AP from Foundry and provide assets like art and music, and Foundry will hire devs from the community to create the maps, npcs, etc. Empassioned devs do a good job and get paid, Foundry keeps everything working and gets paid, Paizo makes the original APs and gets paid, everybody wins.
Does it? According to the reddit post, Sigil Entertainment is involved. I assume they are handling the conversions while leveraging the community contributions to the system. It would certainly be nice if Paizo or someone could kick some funds back towards those devs because they are doing good work for nothing right now.
 

JThursby

Adventurer
Does it? According to the reddit post, Sigil Entertainment is involved. I assume they are handling the conversions while leveraging the community contributions to the system. It would certainly be nice if Paizo or someone could kick some funds back towards those devs because they are doing good work for nothing right now.
We know that Sigil worked with Narchy of NarchyMaps to create the battle maps for the current three VTT projects. You're right in that it isn't solely community devs working on the project, but we've already seen one of the biggest names of the PF2e community become a part of the official process.
 

dave2008

Legend
What’s the alternative? Someone else step up to work for free on your behalf? That’s pretty damn entitled.
Yes, that is what I've been thinking the whole time. I earnestly hope Retreater is OK. His posts seem to be getting grumpier and grumpier. I know I have had a hard time in the pandemic and I see some of my troubles in his posts. I hope your doing well @Retreater, and if not, that you get the help you need. I'm struggling with that myself.
 

Retreater

Legend
Yes, that is what I've been thinking the whole time. I earnestly hope Retreater is OK. His posts seem to be getting grumpier and grumpier. I know I have had a hard time in the pandemic and I see some of my troubles in his posts. I hope your doing well @Retreater, and if not, that you get the help you need. I'm struggling with that myself.
Thanks. Yeah, life's hard. Lost a friend to suicide a couple weeks ago. Feeling some guilt about it because of my last conversation with him (which was the same day it happened). So I apologize if there's any collateral damage.
This is adding to the already prevailing disconnect of the pandemic and lack of socialization, seeing real humans, gaming in-person, and not really having quality time with anybody.
So, I'm sorry. I guess my complaints don't seem as bad to me as they actually are.
 

dave2008

Legend
Thanks. Yeah, life's hard. Lost a friend to suicide a couple weeks ago. Feeling some guilt about it because of my last conversation with him (which was the same day it happened). So I apologize if there's any collateral damage.
This is adding to the already prevailing disconnect of the pandemic and lack of socialization, seeing real humans, gaming in-person, and not really having quality time with anybody.
So, I'm sorry. I guess my complaints don't seem as bad to me as they actually are.
Sorry for your loss. It has been really strange how this whole thing has slowly worn on me without me really noticing until it go really bad. Fortunately, realizing it has helped me start to climb out of the pit I was in.

Regarding complaints, I would say many of us our over-sensitive right now. We complain about things we normally wouldn't, and we take complaints harder than we should.

Good luck and I hope D&D / PF2 / RPGs can help you get through. I know this community has played a part in my recovery.
 

Thanks. Yeah, life's hard. Lost a friend to suicide a couple weeks ago. Feeling some guilt about it because of my last conversation with him (which was the same day it happened). So I apologize if there's any collateral damage.
This is adding to the already prevailing disconnect of the pandemic and lack of socialization, seeing real humans, gaming in-person, and not really having quality time with anybody.
So, I'm sorry. I guess my complaints don't seem as bad to me as they actually are.
That is, genuinely rough, been there too.
 

TheAlkaizer

Game Designer
Thanks. Yeah, life's hard. Lost a friend to suicide a couple weeks ago. Feeling some guilt about it because of my last conversation with him (which was the same day it happened). So I apologize if there's any collateral damage.
I've had my own experience with suicide. My went through my whole childhood with three friends, two of which were brothers. The older one ended his life in 2012, and I dreamed of him the night prior and tried to reconnect a few days later to learn the news. It was really though and one way to get through it was to stay in contact with his brother. We exchanged for months, trying to make sense of what happened and our place into all of this. Then, in 2018, the younger brother killed himself too. I went back through our conversations and many of the things he said to me were seen in a whole new light.

Suicide is a very hard thing to make sense of, to understand and to accept. I'm mostly at peace with what happened, but I think about them every day and a few times a year it still finds a way to unsettle me and make me ponder about very philosophical topics.

All in all, take care of yourself. You'll hurt, but you'll heal. And in the end, it's a very meager compensation for such a loss, but you'll learn something about yourself and life. If you need to talk, there's friends and family. There's also resources out there. And if all was to fail, you can talk to anyone that will listen. You can message me if you ever need to talk.
 

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