Paizo To Make Kingmaker Bestiary... For D&D 5E!

Kingmaker's 10th anniversary is approaching. Paizo has announced on their blog that, along with a Pathfinder 2E hardcover Kingmaker compilation, they will be creating a hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for D&D 5E.


20190502-Kingmaker_500.jpg


The blog announcement says "[FONT=&amp]Finally, we'll add a hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for 5E, developed in conjunction with industry leaders in third-party 5E publishing, allowing players of the current edition of the world's oldest RPG the chance to experience the rich and detailed storylines that have made the Kingmaker Adventure Path a fan favorite for a decade."[/FONT]

It is being produced "with industry leaders in third-party 5E publishing" and refers to "add-ons and unlocks" which "will be revealed as the campaign progresses". They're partnering with crowdfunding site Game On Tabletop.

They'll be revealing the details on Tuesday May 7th at noon Pacific time over at KingmakerCampaign.com.

Also in line is a Companion Guide for the PF2 Kingmaker campaign.
 
Russ Morrissey

Comments

Jester David

Adventurer
There is easy money on the table for Paizo, converting some of their classic APs to 5e. It would self-fund via crowdfunding and they could contract out the actual work to Kobold etc.

I suspect the only thing stopping them is that their existing fan base would revolt, possibly seeing it as the beginning of the end for PF. But I suspect it is inevitable...
Paizo’s fans are loyal, but they also listen and engage with the company.
If Paizo’s staff is honest and comes out and says “we don’t support Edition wars, because we’re all gamers, and these products aren’t coming at the expense of Pathfinder products” or even “the fans have been asking for 5e support, so we’re giving that audience what they want” it will quickly end any revolt.

Especially as there are two or three Paizo alumni working for WotC now.
 

Mistwell

Hero
They BETTER not release a Savage Tides 5e conversion after I've spent so much time converting it myself!!
Oh come on. I did that too, and it wasn't so bad.

I mean, after I was done I have not converted anything since. And my eye twitches every time I consider converting another adventure path. But not so bad.

 

turkeygiant

Villager
Honestly the Pathfinder forums are a terrible place to look if you want to judge how 2.0 is going to be received, the only people commenting on there are the people who hate it, its just a fact of the internet that people rarely invest time to saying they like something. As a former Pathfinder player and a current 5e player Pathfinder 2.0 is really quite appealing to me, I like almost everything about it except for its still bloated bonus progression which I guess was too much of a sacred cow to completely cut (even if I think it would have made the game so much better).
 

turkeygiant

Villager
I believe all along Paizo has tried to position themselves as the sort of Advanced D&D to D&D in terms of complexity (not quality or anything like that, it's not a jab at D&D). They know their RPG is more complex than 5e (and 4e before that) and lean into that as a selling feature for those who prefer a more complex RPG experience.

With 5e massively growing the number of gamers, some of them will eventually want games that are more involved with far more knobs and buttons for tweaking, and Paizo is smart to position themselves as that alternative. Their biggest problem, however, has probably been that they haven't had a lot of connection to the 5e community. They mostly (in my opinion) have relied on the massive momentum of gamers who loved 3.x but hated 4e to keep themselves going. With the crossover book as well as the new streaming game with Oblivion Oath, they can hopefully make some connections to the newer 5e fans.
I think the one place where Pathfinder 2.0 is going to fail as a crunchier upgrade from 5e is in it's bonus progression. At least in my experience that transition to bounded accuracy in 5e was kinda a revelation, its not something I would easily go back on even if the other elements of more complex crunch in Pathfinder 2.0 do appeal to me.
 

turkeygiant

Villager
That would be a good conversion for Wotc to make. Not sure if Paizo owns the rights to that.

Paizo is in a tough spot. Sales of pathfinder have plummeted. A lot of fans that went to pathfinder because they didn't like 4e have come back for 5e. PF 2e isn't sitting well with a % of their fans. Starfinder is the only signing spot and it's good to see them throwing more support towards it. But, to be honest an Advanced 5e Starfinder would be a huge hit imo and I would prefer it over the older d20 chassis version.
I was so ready for Stafinder, it sounded so good and their credo that they would put what was good for Starfinder ahead of backwards compatibility sounded like a great development decision, but in the end it was just too much Pathfinder and not enough of its own beast. I grabbed the pdf and my gaming group looked it over but we pretty much unanimously agreed that it just wasn't what we were looking for in sci-fi. There was just too much in the base of the game that reminded us of what made pathfinder such a slog to play years ago before we bailed for 5e.
 

GreyLord

Adventurer
Well, with this announcement it may be enough for me to want to buy the Kingmaker Hardcover and the 5e bestiary that comes with it.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
I was so ready for Stafinder, it sounded so good and their credo that they would put what was good for Starfinder ahead of backwards compatibility sounded like a great development decision, but in the end it was just too much Pathfinder and not enough of its own beast. I grabbed the pdf and my gaming group looked it over but we pretty much unanimously agreed that it just wasn't what we were looking for in sci-fi. There was just too much in the base of the game that reminded us of what made pathfinder such a slog to play years ago before we bailed for 5e.
Have you checked out Esper Genesis? https://alligatoralleyentertainment.com/espergenesis/
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I admit I'm surprised - this is Paizo signalling that they're willing to give up on having their own game line and go back to being a D&D 3rd party publisher. If they're going to do that why bother with a major revision for second edition PF at all? Why not just clean up Pathfinder into a 1.5 edition and dual-stat their books for Pathfinder and 5e?
Well, I don't think they'll give up on the their own game line just yet, but they do seem to be hedging their bets. Starfinder is their own system so that's another hedge.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I was so ready for Stafinder, it sounded so good and their credo that they would put what was good for Starfinder ahead of backwards compatibility sounded like a great development decision, but in the end it was just too much Pathfinder and not enough of its own beast. I grabbed the pdf and my gaming group looked it over but we pretty much unanimously agreed that it just wasn't what we were looking for in sci-fi. There was just too much in the base of the game that reminded us of what made pathfinder such a slog to play years ago before we bailed for 5e.
Same here. Really just felt like D&D in space. And, really, didn't feel like it was in space much at all. Would have been better to either go the spelljammer route and assume a fantasical version of reality with crystal spheres, etc. or play up the space concept a bit more seriously. To be fair, my experience has only been a few Convention games, but it just didn't grab me.

I like playing the PF 2 playtest more than I did Starfinder, but it wasn't a different enough system from 5e to make me want to invest my time and money into it.

There has been a glut of excellent new games and settings and adventures in the bast few years and I'm losing my appetite. Something needs to be very compelling to get me to open my wallet these days.

Now, if Paizo would have put out 5e material 3-4 years ago, I expect my shelves would be full of their material instead of Kobold Press and Frog God Games.
 

Tom Miskey

Villager
I think it'll help their market visibility, and if the 5e players like the content of what Paizo produces they might even start investing in Pathfinder 2.0, and Paizo could expand their sales that way.
From what I've seen of the reception on their own forums though, it doesn't look promising, there's a few Pathfinder 1.0 players on that same thread who won't even buy a Pathfinder 2.0 compilation but will buy a Pathfinder 1.0 compilation in a heartbeat. But that's also just the forums.
In the Pathfinder group I play in, I'm the only one who bought the preview book version for 2E. The rest of the group has no intention of changing to 2E even when the actual 2E core rulebooks are released. I may buy them if there is a massive group of PF players that review it positively, but right now, I don't think I'd ever get a chance to play it if I did... I may just wait till a later printing, since Paizo seems to incorporate errata and updates in later printings. I still have the 1st printings of all the 1E PF books, and sometimes we find out that a rule was changed in a newer printing.
 

John R Davis

Explorer
Kingmaker was fantastic when we played it ten years ago. Having a full 5th ed version to bring it up to date with a streamlined rules set would get my money!
 

CapnZapp

Adventurer
too much of a sacred cow to completely cut (even if I think it would have made the game so much better).
That is my general fear too.

Actually that's a very succinct way of explaining why I would have wanted Paizo to use 5E as their base. And then add back the things we miss from there.

Because whatever you may think of that game 5E truly did cut those sacred cows that kept d20 from becoming great.
 

CapnZapp

Adventurer
I think the one place where Pathfinder 2.0 is going to fail as a crunchier upgrade from 5e is in it's bonus progression. At least in my experience that transition to bounded accuracy in 5e was kinda a revelation, its not something I would easily go back on even if the other elements of more complex crunch in Pathfinder 2.0 do appeal to me.
This is a brilliant illustration of my point - that there is a before 5E and an after 5E and that Paizo is not even realizing the market has shifted to a point where several of their mechanisms are not palatable any longer.
 

CapnZapp

Adventurer
I admit I'm surprised - this is Paizo signalling that they're willing to give up on having their own game line and go back to being a D&D 3rd party publisher. If they're going to do that why bother with a major revision for second edition PF at all? Why not just clean up Pathfinder into a 1.5 edition and dual-stat their books for Pathfinder and 5e?
Or alternatively, why aren't they making a Pathfinder 2 that hews closely to 5E while not claiming exact compatibility; offering greater play crunch with only a small hurdle (since the game offers all the great improvements 5E brought to the table: fixed LFQW, easy monster prep, even a version of bounded accuracy that's just not as bounded, true tanks and damage dealers, magic item pricing, deeper tactical experience with high-level monsters built to withstand player abilities and do much more
 

Zarithar

Explorer
Excellent news. I love their products but gave up on PF a few years back. I'll definitely be picking this up.
 

LuisCarlos17f

Adventurer
Now I wonder about this book could be linked with the videogame.

Other matter is about if we really need nPCs when if we know the plot and we only need to add a "race+class" to create or update those characters.
 

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