Paizo To Make Kingmaker Bestiary... For D&D 5E!

Kingmaker's 10th anniversary is approaching. Paizo has announced on their blog that, along with a Pathfinder 2E hardcover Kingmaker compilation, they will be creating a hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for D&D 5E.


20190502-Kingmaker_500.jpg


The blog announcement says "[FONT=&amp]Finally, we'll add a hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for 5E, developed in conjunction with industry leaders in third-party 5E publishing, allowing players of the current edition of the world's oldest RPG the chance to experience the rich and detailed storylines that have made the Kingmaker Adventure Path a fan favorite for a decade."[/FONT]

It is being produced "with industry leaders in third-party 5E publishing" and refers to "add-ons and unlocks" which "will be revealed as the campaign progresses". They're partnering with crowdfunding site Game On Tabletop.

They'll be revealing the details on Tuesday May 7th at noon Pacific time over at KingmakerCampaign.com.

Also in line is a Companion Guide for the PF2 Kingmaker campaign.
 
Russ Morrissey

Comments

This is good news. I hope it keeps up because there are a couple other APs I would love to see in collected hardcovers and 5e ready.
 

darjr

I crit!
Paizo could have done a 5e without hitching their ride to WOTC.

They just had to follow their original playbook. Take the 5e stuff released under OGL and do their own rulebook. Release pf1.0 books for a while after and then transition to their new book.

Imagine a 5e pathfinder society?

5e is under the OGL and has an SRD.

To me the surprise move WAS pf2e. I still don’t quite understand it.
 

LuisCarlos17f

Adventurer
I imagine a 5e Golarion, but it wouldn't be background or lore, but monsters, races and classes.

Why not a Pathfinder version of warlock and dragonborn?
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I may just wait till a later printing, since Paizo seems to incorporate errata and updates in later printings. I still have the 1st printings of all the 1E PF books, and sometimes we find out that a rule was changed in a newer printing.
This is one reason I love D&D Beyond. Material is automatically updated.

With the RealmWorks content market live, the same will be true for Pathfinder material you buy for RealmWorks, but RealmWorks is a heavy campaign-management application the requires Windows to run.

Pathfinder needs its version of D&D Beyond. Yeah, I know, Paizo is great about PDF files, but they just are not as convenient.

Maybe Roll 20 can play the role of providing Web-friendly, hyperlinked, and easily-searchable PF books.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
This is a brilliant illustration of my point - that there is a before 5E and an after 5E and that Paizo is not even realizing the market has shifted to a point where several of their mechanisms are not palatable any longer.
Not disagreeing with your general observations, but I have to quibble with your characterization of Paizo not understanding their market. I find it hard to believe that they are "not even realizing the market as shifted...." But effectively responding to market changes is far more difficult than seeing them.

As someone who missed out on all the edition wars and the rise of Pathfinder, what I don't understand is why Paizo has not come out with any other systems all these years. To put it as charitably as I can, they do not seem to be designers of unique game systems. They just copied open-sourced D&D and added lots of additional rules. Nothing in their crunch seems compelling to this 1e player who got back into TTRPGs with 5e. As I start to branch out beyond D&D, no rule system but out by Paizo has compelled me to spend money on it, even after making the effort to try them out (PF 2.0 and Starfinder) at PFS/SFS convention events.

Yet, there are so many other systems coming out. Too many for me to even to even read about in my limited time. Some seem to be doing quite well for the companies publishing them. It seems that Paizo is like Hollywood in that it is difficult for them to take a risk on something new and original. For the effort to be worth it, they need a blockbuster. And this is the problem. I don't see Pathfinder 2 being that blockbuster. It may be a good system. I certainly enjoyed it. But I find it difficult to believe it will attract a sufficient number of new users to make up for the PF 1 players who refuse to embrace it.

It seems that Paizo needs to take some risks now. Maybe that is coming up with a new game system that is a complete departure from d20 mechanics.
 

MockingBird

Explorer
I just checked out Paizo's forums so I could see for myself. It does indeed look like PF2e is divisive. Theres a lot of "not gonna switch" proclamations. I'm curious to see how this evolves when 2e finally drops. Also seems to be some resentment for a 5e inclusion for Kingmaker and not 1e. Someone made a great point about the loud minority though. I missed the PF1e play test so I'm not sure how to compare the transparency between the two. Its interesting to watch from the side lines. I remember a lot of the same going on with D&D Next/5e.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
It seems that Paizo needs to take some risks now. Maybe that is coming up with a new game system that is a complete departure from d20 mechanics.
Yeah but there are tons of those too. Paizo’s brand is closely tied to D&D it really does seem like they should transition to providing their adventure paths in both PF 1e & D&D 5e formats (and sell bestiaries for both). That seems like the way to maximize things and then if/when WotC screws up 6e, they’ll be ready once more to rescue the unhappy 5e players :)

It’s not pretty but it would probably be lucrative.

Edit: or at least PF 2e and 5e formats
 
So let me read between the lines.

1) PF1 pretty much reached "peak edition," thus PF2.
2) PF2 is not being well-received by the hardcore base.
3) Paizo is dipping their toe into 5E waters.

Given that there probably wasn't anywhere to go with PF1, PF2 made sense. But given the wild popularity of 5E, chances are that there aren't many new fans that Paizo can attract to PF2, so it could theoretically be dead on arrival (not enough PF1 converters + few new players = dead on arrival). So...they're looking to expand into 5E.

Again, makes sense. They can keep PF1 alive as a "legacy game," maybe keep doing adventure paths. I suppose they can publish PF2 and see how it does, but at some point they probably have to choose two of three: PF1, PF2, and 5E. Given all of the above, I wouldn't be surprised to see PF2 fizzle out after a couple years.
 

EthanSental

Explorer
5e adventure paths would be something I’d purchase. The first 8 or so APs were quality stuff that I played/read when we were playing PF from around 2010-2014.

My feelings fall in line with Mercurius’ above.
 
5E seems like a good game. But it's lack of customization and options (relative to Pathfinder) prevents it from being a game that I want to play or run long term.

Not everyone wants their Fantasy RPG to be D&D 5E. It may be the 500lb gorilla right now but it's a relatively unappealing 500lb gorilla to me.

I'm not a huge fan of Pathfinder 2E as it was in the playtest, but the playtest for 1E was different than the finished product which is something alot of people and johnny come lately's on the Paizo forums seem to either not know or have forgotten that fact.

My plan is to continue running Pathfinder 1E using the massive amounts of material available. Run PF 2E to learn and get used to the system. I plan on using 5E only to run classic adventures like Keep on the Borderlands or a converted Village of Hommlet possibly for new players exclusively as an intro to RPG's.

I love how there are alot of people here saying that PF2 may be DOA. I remember many years ago many people on this forum saying the same thing about PF1. Granted the D&D brand was a lot weaker then, but the thing that the popular kids need to understand is that not everyone WANTS to play D&D. There are other options and PF IS one of those options. Also in this hobby people are more likely to crap all over something that ISNT the thing that they like or something that they like that is being changed in some significant way. Like I said wasnt a big fan of the playtest as a whole. There WERE things that I absolutely liked, the action economy system for one.

Anyway I can see how Paizo supporting 5E instead of continuing to support 1E is seen as a betrayal of sorts. I see the spot that they are in though. And to be honest if gamers we'rent so selfishly myopic they would see that buisness wise what Paizo is doing is absolutley the smart play.


Have support for thier new system in the form of a deluxe version of an older AP.
Have support for the popular system of choice and introduce those gamers to Paizo AP's. If it sells well enough Paizo will probably start to convert more older AP's to both 5E and PF2.
PF1 has had TEN YEARS of support with crap loads of products.

While players can still play and run games of PF1 until the cows come home it's time for Paizo to move on.
 

Azzy

Cyclone Ranger
I love how there are alot of people here saying that PF2 may be DOA. I remember many years ago many people on this forum saying the same thing about PF1. Granted the D&D brand was a lot weaker then, but the thing that the popular kids need to understand is that not everyone WANTS to play D&D. There are other options and PF IS one of those options. Also in this hobby people are more likely to crap all over something that ISNT the thing that they like or something that they like that is being changed in some significant way. Like I said wasnt a big fan of the playtest as a whole. There WERE things that I absolutely liked, the action economy system for one.
To be fair, the people here say that PF2 may be DOA are saying that in reaction to the myriad PF1 edition warriors that actively denounce PF rather than any feelings of ill will to Paizo or PF2 themselves. Personally, I hope PF2 is a success—successes in this hobby are a great thing for the rest of the community. And, besides, Paizo are good people. However, you lot have an edition war on your hands just from a cursory look at the Paizo forums. I hope that war dies in a fire when PF2 is released.
 

thundershot

Explorer
If Pazio produces books for 5E, I will buy them. I’m not changing systems again anytime soon. 5E is perfect for teaching my kids D&D.
 

CapnZapp

Adventurer
5E seems like a good game. But it's lack of customization and options (relative to Pathfinder) prevents it from being a game that I want to play or run long term.
And the heavy workload for the DM drove me away from d20/PF.

Look, we are many who are hungry for a game with more charbuild options: prestige classes, integrated magic item economy, and what not.

I just think the appetite for a game that doesn't offer easy NPC prep and thoroughly solved LFQW is much much lower in 2020 than in 2010 or in 2000. I don't think many RPG consumers will stand for it.

Also, every other publisher than WotC is a miniscule operation. The only reason Paizo could grow was because their game had an intimate relation to D&D proper. By going independent Paizo is likely joining the ranks of entirely inconsequential micro publishers.

I fear Paizo has completely missed the boat here. All the boats.
 

GreyLord

Adventurer
And the heavy workload for the DM drove me away from d20/PF.

Look, we are many who are hungry for a game with more charbuild options: prestige classes, integrated magic item economy, and what not.

I just think the appetite for a game that doesn't offer easy NPC prep and thoroughly solved LFQW is much much lower in 2020 than in 2010 or in 2000. I don't think many RPG consumers will stand for it.

Also, every other publisher than WotC is a miniscule operation. The only reason Paizo could grow was because their game had an intimate relation to D&D proper. By going independent Paizo is likely joining the ranks of entirely inconsequential micro publishers.

I fear Paizo has completely missed the boat here. All the boats.
I personally do not feel the LFQW thing is even a FACTOR with how popular 5e has become. If THAT was the deciding factor, 4e would have won the gambit by a long mile.

5e is successful because it is FAR easier to general people to learn, and when new players are coming to a game, ease of use is a major factor.

Eventually some may want something different, but for new players, 5e currently is one of the easiest games to learn within a short period that fall under the popular name brand of D&D (aka...any type of game that would fall under the D20 mechanic of games).

It has nothing to do with LFQW per se, and more to do with the fact that a LOT OF NEW gamers are coming into RPGs and are actually able to figure out how to play with a minimum amount of trouble and confusion.

That's the real key to 5e's success today. It is attracting NEW gamers, rather than just appealing to old gamers who keep bringing up old thoughts such as LFQW and other relics of a bygone age of angst and discussion about "balance" and other items that seemed so pertinent 10-20 years ago.

This does not mean that you are not correct to some degree, but my personal feeling differs on why 5e is being so successful and what is actually bringing in new gamers (most of who have never even heard of LFQW).
 
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Staffan

Adventurer
I just think the appetite for a game that doesn't offer easy NPC prep and thoroughly solved LFQW is much much lower in 2020 than in 2010 or in 2000. I don't think many RPG consumers will stand for it.
PF2 has done quite a lot to deal with LFQW, or at least tried. It's a bit hard to say based on the playtest, because magic was nerfed a bit too hard and they'll compensate a bit in the actual rules, but some changes:

  • Spell effect is based on spell level, not caster level. This is a harsher version than in 5e, because PF2 still has Vancian casting so if you want 5th level damage from your fireball, you need to prepare it at 5th level. Sorcerers can have a few spells where they can upcast them on the fly. On the upside, they are using upcast low-level spells to alter the spell in ways beyond the purely numeric (stronger effect/more targets) that 5e has. For example, instead of having both charm person and charm monster, being able to affect non-humanoids is what happens when you cast charm at 4th level.
  • Buff spells often require concentration, which takes up one action (out of three) each round.
  • Many debuffs have a weakened effect on a successful save, a moderate effect on a failed save, and a strong effect on a critically failed save. For example, paralyze (the equivalent of hold person) gives the target slowed 1 (lose one action) for one round on a success, paralyzes them for one round on a failure, and paralyzes them for 4 rounds (with a save to break free each round) on a critical failure.
 
However, you lot have an edition war on your hands just from a cursory look at the Paizo forums. I hope that war dies in a fire when PF2 is released.
LOLZ. Edition War? Nah, compared to the switchover from 3.4 to 4.0 then to Pathfinder this is more like an edition skirmish.

Maybe an Edition slap-fight...
 
Also, every other publisher than WotC is a miniscule operation. The only reason Paizo could grow was because their game had an intimate relation to D&D proper. By going independent Paizo is likely joining the ranks of entirely inconsequential micro publishers.

I fear Paizo has completely missed the boat here. All the boats.
Paizo isn’t a minuscule operation. I want to say at this point that I think that they have more people working in house for them than the RPG dept at WOTC does. WOTC is a huge company but D&D is just one small part of that whole. And I really don’t think that there are as many people working Full Time in D&D than there are at Paizo.

As far as them missing the boat? Again with your micro publisher comment, I get the feeling that you don’t know that much about Paizo’s history and the background regarding the switch over from 3.5 to 4 and the reason that PF was formed to begin with. They got burned pretty badly hitching themselves to someone else’s properties. I think that their relative autonomy was/is a prime motivator here.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Paizo To Make Kingmaker Bestiary... For D&D 5E!

Paizo isn’t a minuscule operation. I want to say at this point that I think that they have more people working in house for them than the RPG dept at WOTC does. WOTC is a huge company but D&D is just one small part of that whole. And I really don’t think that there are as many people working Full Time in D&D than there are at Paizo.

As far as them missing the boat? Again with your micro publisher comment, I get the feeling that you don’t know that much about Paizo’s history and the background regarding the switch over from 3.5 to 4 and the reason that PF was formed to begin with. They got burned pretty badly hitching themselves to someone else’s properties. I think that their relative autonomy was/is a prime motivator here.
Indeed. And FFG and Games Workshop. I don’t know how GW and WotC compare, but GW is a behemoth. It just has an entirely separate fan base.
 

Hussar

Legend
I think the point that [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] was trying to make is that Pathfinder is a pretty small slice of the RPG market. Considering that the RPG market without WotC producing any new books is about 15 million dollars (and that included 3e and 4e at the time), it's not really too much of a stretch to think that Pathfinder's market share isn't really large.

I realize that the common wisdom is that WotC is the 600 pound gorilla, but, really, we don't know how the market slices up.
 

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