Paladin Design Goals ... WotC Blog

[Stormonu]

One more thing that really irks me about the blog.

Sword, sword, sword.

C'mon, is it that difficult to envision a paladin with a mace, scimitar, axe or - heaven forbid - a bow? Does a Holy Avenger *have* to be sword? Is there no place in 5E design for Holy weapons? I thought the designers were trying to move away from the "tyranny of fun" and give us tools to do it our way, instead of telling us what way is the "correct one".

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I'd rather the Paladin got an enhanced version of Sense Motive, and the "Evildar" of Detect Evil is either removed or only worked on supernatural evil/creatures with the Evil subtype, like Demons and Devils. You could then detect if, say, someone was possessed by a demon, but you'd have to use your gut to figure out that the polymorphed-dragon-disguised-as-mayor wasn't on the up-and-up.

I like that idea, as it goes a long way towards removing the idiotic "lawful stupid" take on paladins. It's not as if the otherwise neutral merchant with a strong greedy streak is oozing sincerity.

 

[Herschel]

In theory, evrything could be done with few base classes and themes, but would that be open/fun enough?

Something like Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Arcane Adept, Berserker, Explorer, Rogue,

Paladin: Hybrid Fighter/Cleric, Paladin Theme
Ranger: Hybrid Fighter/Exploerer, Ranger Theme
Bard: Hybrid Rogue/Learned Spellcaster, Bard Theme
Barbarian: Hybrid Fighter/Berserker, Barbarian Theme
Warlock: Hybrid Wizard/Arcane Adept, Warlock Theme
Druid: Hybrid Cleric/Explorer, Druid Theme
Swordmage: Hybrid Fighter/Wizard, Swordmage Theme

That sounds very modular, but I don't know that I like it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So far so good, but I really want:

Smite, lay on hands, and aura from 3e and divine challah he from 4e

 

[Kzach]

A paladin is only a paladin if it's lawful good, period. That IS the archetype. Don't have alignment? Don't have paladins. If you want a special arbiter of chaotic neutral virtue then make it up and give it a name that ISN'T PALADIN!

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

And when a paladin lays on hands, the healing might also relieve malign conditions and spent stamina.

Spent Stamina? I want to know more about this mechanic.

 

[Stormonu]

If you can't tell, I have stong opinions about Paladins; I guess they're one of my favorite classes.

a paladin who champions a good deity or moral alignment is willing (and able) to sacrifice his or her own safety to ensure the safety of his or her companions

Somehow, with the Paladin, I'm more inclined to see the paladin as seeing himself as both expendable and invincible at the same time. As I've seen in so many movies, he's the guy who knows he's destined to win, but his friends don't share the same immunity he does. Sort of like that scene in Braveheart, where the one companion (Stephen?), leans over to William and says, "My God says he'll get me out of this, but you, we'll you're boned" (or words to that effect).

James Bond and even Batman seem to have the same problem; they're destined to pull through bloody but victiorious, but often those around them - those whom the character cares deeply about protecting often - are sacrificed for success.

I want the design space to be able to represent this in the fact the paladin *can* provide some protection to other, but primarily he *can* augment himself into the wrathful, unstoppable vengeance of his god, and forgo being defensive. It'd also be an interesting augment if the paladin could fuel his powers aganst his foes through allies sacrifice - something like the more his allies get injured, the more dangerous he becomes.

 

[SLOTHmaster]

A paladin is only a paladin if it's lawful good, period. That IS the archetype. Don't have alignment? Don't have paladins. If you want a special arbiter of chaotic neutral virtue then make it up and give it a name that ISN'T PALADIN!

From wikipedia:
The earliest recorded instance of the word paladin in the English language dates to 1592, in a poem written by Samuel Daniel.[1] It entered English through the Middle French word paladin, which itself derived from the Italian paladino.[1] All these words for Charlemagne's Twelve Peers descend ultimately from the Latin palatinus, most likely through the Old French palatin.[1] The Latin palatinus referred to an official of the Roman Emperor connected to the imperial palace on the Palatine Hill; over time this word came to refer to other high-level officials in the imperial, majestic and royal courts.[2] The word palatine, used in various European countries in the medieval and modern eras, has the same derivation.[2]
By the 13th century words referring specifically to Charlemagne's peers began appearing in European languages; the earliest is the Italian paladino.[1] Modern French has paladin, Spanish has paladín or paladino (reflecting alternate derivations from the French and Italian), while German has Paladin.[1] By extension "paladin" has come to refer to any chivalrous hero such as King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table.[1]
Paladin was also used to refer to the leaders of armies supporting the Protestant Frederick V in the Thirty Years War ending in 1648.[3]

I don't get why that has to be lawful good.

 

[Klaus]

Paladins might be my favorite class. It was certainly the first one I played, way back in 1987 (I'll always remember you, Bulldozer Crane).

I could use with less overtly divine, deity-devoted paladins. The Essentials Paladin, with its utmost devotion to a Virtue, is my favorite iteration of the class.

Detect Evil, I could certainly do without.

 

[am181d]

I'm not normally one to be negative, but this is a case where I really think they're going in the wrong direction. It sounds like they're going to basically double down on the 3e paladin and just make some of the abilities weirder. (Your magic mount now forces other players to keep track of modifiers on their mounts! You can be evil now, and you can also smite evil!)

I still think the right thing to do with Paladins is to define them by their allegiance (which can still be to a Lawful Good god, if you want a classic Paladin, or could be allegiance to a king or a secret order) and to give them abilities like Sense Threat to the Cause and Smite Enemies of the Cause.

Someone made the great point that a bonus to charge would be a good way to give Paladins a bonus with a mount without actually requiring the Paladin have a mount, while at the same time emphasizing the Paladin's valor.

This is one place where it feels (to me at least) like WotC is heading in the wrong direction. Well, if they're wrong, hopefully it'll come out in the playtest!