Carnivorous_Bean
First Post
Kordeth said:
You know, you just sold me on the shielding smite.
I usually ignore fluff descriptions and substitute my own, anyway -- and what you said just made it make sense to me. Thank you.
Paladin. Disappointing
- Thread starter Sitara
- Start date
You know, you just sold me on the shielding smite.
I usually ignore fluff descriptions and substitute my own, anyway -- and what you said just made it make sense to me. Thank you.
Incenjucar
Legend
For those having difficulty with the smack+blessing abilities, just consider it as a confirmation of faith giving the divine an easier path to intervene.
Fallen Seraph
First Post
Carnivorous_Bean said:You know, you just sold me on the shielding smite.
Yeah same here, was a tad edgy on that, but that works for me
Also, YAY! EnWorld is alive again!
Xath
Moder-gator
Disclaimer: I havn't read the entire thread yet because I'm trying to compile some more news from D&D Experience.
That being said, I've played quite a few of the classes and so far, the paladin is my favorite. I was able to introduce a magic item (a Frost Warhammer +1) into the game, and the GM said my Paladin was proficient. So #1, I got to deal a base d10 instead of a d6. (Who knows if that's actually allowed? I just went off of what the GM said).
Anyway, it rocked. The paladin had the highest AC, and I was able to save and soak alot of the hits that were meant for other characters. The paladin's challenge ability is probably the single best ability I've come across. You challenge a creature, and if it makes an attack that doesn't include you, it automatically takes 8 points of damage. This came in super-handy.
One of my other attacks also gave me a bonus to damage if I attacked a creature I had challenged.
As for the lay on hands ability, it's still really useful. The healing surges are nice, but you can only use a healing surge once per encounter during combat, as part of your Second Wind. So, if anyone needs to heal more than once in a combat, they have to rely on the cleric or the Paladin's Lay on Hands ability.
That being said, I've played quite a few of the classes and so far, the paladin is my favorite. I was able to introduce a magic item (a Frost Warhammer +1) into the game, and the GM said my Paladin was proficient. So #1, I got to deal a base d10 instead of a d6. (Who knows if that's actually allowed? I just went off of what the GM said).
Anyway, it rocked. The paladin had the highest AC, and I was able to save and soak alot of the hits that were meant for other characters. The paladin's challenge ability is probably the single best ability I've come across. You challenge a creature, and if it makes an attack that doesn't include you, it automatically takes 8 points of damage. This came in super-handy.
One of my other attacks also gave me a bonus to damage if I attacked a creature I had challenged.
As for the lay on hands ability, it's still really useful. The healing surges are nice, but you can only use a healing surge once per encounter during combat, as part of your Second Wind. So, if anyone needs to heal more than once in a combat, they have to rely on the cleric or the Paladin's Lay on Hands ability.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Maybe and maybe not. When looking at the character sheets from DDXP and comparing them, I was struck by how the fighter now seems shoehorned into a very narrowly defined role of "Defender."
Now, neither I nor anyone else should jump to too many conclusions based on delve character sheets. (When a Green Regent or Mark of Heros fastplay--or WotC pregenerated charater--failed to suck, I was pleasntly surprised and the power level of the characters at the Gen Con delve last year varied dramatically; if I had compared, say the warmage and sorceror or barbarian and paladin on the basis of those character sheets, I would have reached some pretty inaccurate conclusions).
That said, those character sheets (and designer comments about roles, etc) are what I've got to work with, so I'll try anyway. In 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition, the fighter was the guy who would stand in front, wield his mighty weapon, kick monster behind, and leave the wizard to take names. Or at least he could be if you wanted him to. What struck me about the 4th edition pregen fighter was that she was on the low end of offensive power. The ranger hits twice as often. The rogue or warlock does twice as much damage. What the fighter is good at is getting in the way of the enemy and she only gets to actually kick monster behind if the monster she is standing next to tries to ignore her. In short, the fighter is NOT doing archetypical fighter stuff anymore. She is standing around and getting hit while everyone else kills the monsters.
Now, neither I nor anyone else should jump to too many conclusions based on delve character sheets. (When a Green Regent or Mark of Heros fastplay--or WotC pregenerated charater--failed to suck, I was pleasntly surprised and the power level of the characters at the Gen Con delve last year varied dramatically; if I had compared, say the warmage and sorceror or barbarian and paladin on the basis of those character sheets, I would have reached some pretty inaccurate conclusions).
That said, those character sheets (and designer comments about roles, etc) are what I've got to work with, so I'll try anyway. In 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition, the fighter was the guy who would stand in front, wield his mighty weapon, kick monster behind, and leave the wizard to take names. Or at least he could be if you wanted him to. What struck me about the 4th edition pregen fighter was that she was on the low end of offensive power. The ranger hits twice as often. The rogue or warlock does twice as much damage. What the fighter is good at is getting in the way of the enemy and she only gets to actually kick monster behind if the monster she is standing next to tries to ignore her. In short, the fighter is NOT doing archetypical fighter stuff anymore. She is standing around and getting hit while everyone else kills the monsters.
Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Elder-Basilisk said:
Umm...how is "standing in front kicking behind and leaving the wizard to take names" not the same thing as "standing around and getting hit while everyone else kills the monsters?" I'm not trying to be snarky, but these seem to be pretty much the same sentiment. And given that the fighter's at-will abilities are both about crowd-control and her encounter power is all about mobility, I don't really see the fighter "standing around" all that much. Seems she's got a pretty good set of abilities to put herself wherever the thickest press of bad guys is, wade in, and start smacking fools around.
Also:
Don't see where you're getting this. The ranger has only one multiple attack power, and that's per-day. The fighter's damage on all her powers exceeds the rangers, and in fact of the two the fighter is the one who can hit multiple enemies (with Cleave and Passing Attack). The warlock's per-encounter and daily abilities edge out the fighter in damage, but only just--and considering smacking single enemies for huge damage is the striker's schtick, that's bloody impressive.
I look at the fighter powers the sample characters have, and I get the impression the fighter actually has a healthy side of striker to go with her defender, and I have no problem at all seeing her laying the smack down with equal fervor.
Darth Cyric
First Post
I think he's talking about the Ranger's Careful Strike, and not multiple attacks, but actually a greater chance to hit something.Kordeth said:
Also, Rangers can do more damage to a single enemy they designate a Hunter's Quarry. Warlocks, similarly with Warlock's Curse. Until you get to the Fighter's daily power, of course, but all classes are going to have more of a choice in selecting daily powers. I'm sure the Ranger has a 3[W] daily power somewhere at 1st level, but just chose to select Split the Tree instead.
Not that Fighter's aren't looking good.
Darth Cyric said:
D'oh, you're right. Teach me to post after a long day at work. Although I do have to point out that Careful Strike only lets the ranger hit 20% more often.
But still, the fighter edges out, or is highly competitive with, the strikers against any foe on the field. In order to bypass him damage-wise, they have to burn actions--and also plan their movement carefully unless they want to focus all that extra damage on the melee minions crowding the front line. So yes, I agree with you, fighters are looking quite spiffy--and Cleave + Minions who die in one hit (+ possible Passing Attack) = lots of bodies on the floor.
Incenjucar
Legend
The fighter has the advantage of being able to just mow through opponents.
The strikers have the advantage of not having to mow through people to get to the opponent that really matters.
The strikers have the advantage of not having to mow through people to get to the opponent that really matters.
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
Yeah, the Fighter looks like the very hard close range version of the Controller.
Hits multiple opponents and moves people around the battlefield really easilly.
Hits multiple opponents and moves people around the battlefield really easilly.
