L
lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
D&D 5E (2014) Paladin just committed murder - what should happen next?
- Thread starter firstkyne
- Start date
If you lack the imagination to see it, you can't play a paladin.
Only from the perspective of someone without faith. Which again, means you're not playing a paladin.
The use of the word 'suicide' is moronic. Blerting out guff trying to score internet points.
In reality, facing a hopeless situation without renouncing your faith is the very definition of martyrdom. Facing overwhelming odds while performing your duty is a fine working definition of courage and heroism.
You seem cognizant of none of the ideas of faith, nor duty, nor even a working moral compass for when you manage to rules lawyer your way past your oaths. I'm sure your paladins spend a lot of time reading the small print.
TaranTheWanderer
Legend
I think Sturm Brightblade did exactly this in the Dragonlance Novels. He died fighting 3 dragons while trying to give his allies a chance to live/win the battle. I would classify him as a Devotion Paladin.
BookBarbarian
Expert Long Rester
TaranTheWanderer
Legend
@firstkyne
You asked for advice and I will give you some. Feel free to use it or not.
Next session ask your player straight out. Don't ask for excuses, just ask if he acted in a way that was in line with his Oath. Ask him:
, "Do you believe that, in that situation, you:
If his answer is "I don't care." Then he may need to reconsider his class decisions.
If his answer is 'yes, here's why" Then, you may want to discuss your differing views of the Oath so that you are both on the same page.
If his answer is 'no but...'
Then read this to him:
The dream you have this night plays out the same way it has every night since the dragon attacked. It unfolds exactly as it did that day. The man on your shoulders ,praising you for helping him,
"Thank the gods you came when you did, I was done for, for sure!"
Then the dragon descends on you and the dragon-fear permeates the area, the man panics. He simply cowers at the sight of the beast, shaking uncontrollably. You expect your life is forfeit when, instead, the dragon speaks,
"Give me that man, and you can live. I hunger"
Surprisingly, there is a glimmer of hope in the man's eye. Why would such a creature deem to barter? Perhaps you might both escape alive! But that hope dies, like a candle being sniffed out, the moment you agree to the dragon’s demands.
The man cries like a child, begging you not to give him up,
"Please, no! No, no, no...don't do it, my Lord...please...please, don't let him take me, PLEASE, Nooo, NOOOOOOO!"
The dragon picks up the man like an infant being tossed around by an abusive father.
The man, you remember his name, >>insert name<<. screams in pain and fear.
The dragon gives you a smug nod as he flies away. "I will think of you as I satiate my hunger"
The man's screaming gives you shivers, "Nooo, why, whyyyyyy?"
Those screams fade in the distance as the dragon leaves.
You look around. People are looking at you. They saw everything but no-one looks you in the eye. They know the shame of what just happened. They are just like you. They cannot judge you for they would have done the exact. same. thing. Why wouldn't they? They aren't heroes. These people are commoners, merchants, farmers and pig-keepers. They aren't beacons of Hope.
You wake up.
You know that that man's screams will haunt you for a long, long time....
Edited for grammar
You asked for advice and I will give you some. Feel free to use it or not.
Next session ask your player straight out. Don't ask for excuses, just ask if he acted in a way that was in line with his Oath. Ask him:
, "Do you believe that, in that situation, you:
- Through your acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindled the light of hope in the world, and attempted to beat back despair?
- stood against the wickedness that would swallow beauty, love and laughter?
- stood against the forces that would render life barren?
If his answer is "I don't care." Then he may need to reconsider his class decisions.
If his answer is 'yes, here's why" Then, you may want to discuss your differing views of the Oath so that you are both on the same page.
If his answer is 'no but...'
Then read this to him:
The dream you have this night plays out the same way it has every night since the dragon attacked. It unfolds exactly as it did that day. The man on your shoulders ,praising you for helping him,
"Thank the gods you came when you did, I was done for, for sure!"
Then the dragon descends on you and the dragon-fear permeates the area, the man panics. He simply cowers at the sight of the beast, shaking uncontrollably. You expect your life is forfeit when, instead, the dragon speaks,
"Give me that man, and you can live. I hunger"
Surprisingly, there is a glimmer of hope in the man's eye. Why would such a creature deem to barter? Perhaps you might both escape alive! But that hope dies, like a candle being sniffed out, the moment you agree to the dragon’s demands.
The man cries like a child, begging you not to give him up,
"Please, no! No, no, no...don't do it, my Lord...please...please, don't let him take me, PLEASE, Nooo, NOOOOOOO!"
The dragon picks up the man like an infant being tossed around by an abusive father.
The man, you remember his name, >>insert name<<. screams in pain and fear.
The dragon gives you a smug nod as he flies away. "I will think of you as I satiate my hunger"
The man's screaming gives you shivers, "Nooo, why, whyyyyyy?"
Those screams fade in the distance as the dragon leaves.
You look around. People are looking at you. They saw everything but no-one looks you in the eye. They know the shame of what just happened. They are just like you. They cannot judge you for they would have done the exact. same. thing. Why wouldn't they? They aren't heroes. These people are commoners, merchants, farmers and pig-keepers. They aren't beacons of Hope.
You wake up.
You know that that man's screams will haunt you for a long, long time....
Edited for grammar
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Good, solid attempts!
How about "Should the party treat a Paladin that gets them in trouble any differently than a Rogue who steals from them? Both are just doing what their characters would!"
Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
No. This is bad. It's taking a bilateral mistake and handing out unilateral punishment. It's also using DM authority to replace a player's idea about their character with the DM's. Stay on your side of the screen.
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Campbell
Relaxed Intensity
I agree. Asking pointed questions about how the Paladin feels about what they have done is fine and even leading questions about how they think their deity feels about what they have done may be alright in the right circumstances, but Dungeons and Dragons is not a game where you get to tell players how their character feels. There are other games where that might be on the table, but this is not it.
L
lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
Yes. I'm perfectly fine with discussing the incident with the player and sussing out how they think about it, even to the point of asking hard questions, but you take their answers. If you, as DM, feel the need to act on the situation after that (and, please, explain your reasoning to the player), do so with your game, not by telling the player what their character thinks or feels. Have NPCs treat them according to their actions or reputation, don't go into moralizing dream sequences which are targeted at the player for wrongthink and not the character.
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