Paladin Of Freedom Optimization
- Thread starter Nazhkandrias
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Nazhkandrias
First Post
These are all great ideas! Nyaricus... wow. I have the utmost respect for the often-neglected Half-Orc Paladin. This seems like a well-thought out and fun to play build, with ballbusting ability from hell! Not really what I'm looking for (more of the charismatic Paladin rather than the brutal champion). Now, revised ideas that I have, and further details...
Flavorful ideas are welcome too. I'm hoping for an interesting character with good (but not munchkin-y) combat ability. The history is something like this... enslaved as a child (explaining becoming a Paladin of Freedom), adopted by a family of nobles, and he heard the call to become a Paladin. His chaotic tendencies put him out of sync with the Lawful Paladins he trained with, but they respected his devotion to good, so they continued to train him. Now he adventures to strike down tyranny and slavery wherever he can find it.
Statwise, the Con score did really bother me. But my Wis score is a little low as it is (I'll probably end up getting a Periapt Of Wisdom +2 at around 10th level), so I can't lower that any, and I'm loathe to take away from Cha (even though I'm going to use most of my Ability Increases to boost Cha) or Str (he's a foot soldier - he needs that). I'm a big roleplayer, so I'm tend to be loathe to take a penalty to Int on a Charismatic character. I might go with Str 16, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 15.
As for the Turn Undead issue, thanks for the pointer, I'll definitely invest in some Divine feats!
Finally, on the issue of the mount, I just might keep it. I'm considering a Hippogryph (my Paladin has a wind motif - unpredictable and unswayable) as a mount, which only takes one level off of the mount's progression. Which is a better idea - the Celestial Mount feat (BoED), which gives the mount the Celestial template without taking away mount progression, or just getting a Celestial Hippogryph and taking two levels off of the mount's progression? I can totally get down with the idea of a Celestial Hippogryph - I've always wanted to try aerial combat!
Keep those suggestions coming!
Flavorful ideas are welcome too. I'm hoping for an interesting character with good (but not munchkin-y) combat ability. The history is something like this... enslaved as a child (explaining becoming a Paladin of Freedom), adopted by a family of nobles, and he heard the call to become a Paladin. His chaotic tendencies put him out of sync with the Lawful Paladins he trained with, but they respected his devotion to good, so they continued to train him. Now he adventures to strike down tyranny and slavery wherever he can find it.
Statwise, the Con score did really bother me. But my Wis score is a little low as it is (I'll probably end up getting a Periapt Of Wisdom +2 at around 10th level), so I can't lower that any, and I'm loathe to take away from Cha (even though I'm going to use most of my Ability Increases to boost Cha) or Str (he's a foot soldier - he needs that). I'm a big roleplayer, so I'm tend to be loathe to take a penalty to Int on a Charismatic character. I might go with Str 16, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 15.
As for the Turn Undead issue, thanks for the pointer, I'll definitely invest in some Divine feats!
Finally, on the issue of the mount, I just might keep it. I'm considering a Hippogryph (my Paladin has a wind motif - unpredictable and unswayable) as a mount, which only takes one level off of the mount's progression. Which is a better idea - the Celestial Mount feat (BoED), which gives the mount the Celestial template without taking away mount progression, or just getting a Celestial Hippogryph and taking two levels off of the mount's progression? I can totally get down with the idea of a Celestial Hippogryph - I've always wanted to try aerial combat!
Keep those suggestions coming!
Check out Complete Champion. There's an alternate class feature for the special mount that gives a variety of useful abilities, mostly focused on dungeon/underdark settings. If that doesn't suit your character or campaign though, Charging Smite isn't horrible.
For Turn Undead, keep it. Use it to power Divine Might or other divine feats.
While you're flipping through Complete Champion stop and read the Battle Blessing feat. If you're going all the way in paladin, you've finally got a use for your spells (let's face it, paladin spellcasting is often an afterthought - this feat fixes that).
For Turn Undead, keep it. Use it to power Divine Might or other divine feats.
While you're flipping through Complete Champion stop and read the Battle Blessing feat. If you're going all the way in paladin, you've finally got a use for your spells (let's face it, paladin spellcasting is often an afterthought - this feat fixes that).
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
moritheil is right about Turning Attempts. Divine Might and Divine Vigor are both very strong feats for a fighterish character with a good Cha.
Charging Smite Evil is potentially very powerful. Consider the synergies with Improved Critical and Blessed Weapon. A 10th level Paladin could be easily average ~45 damage on a normal hit and double that on a critical -- that critical could happen 30% of the time. With a little cheese it is not difficult to get much, much higher.
Divine Might also has synergy with Charging Smite, as this style favors a few big attacks.
I would note that a low Con melee combatant will find Divine Vigor very helpful.
Charging Smite Evil is potentially very powerful. Consider the synergies with Improved Critical and Blessed Weapon. A 10th level Paladin could be easily average ~45 damage on a normal hit and double that on a critical -- that critical could happen 30% of the time. With a little cheese it is not difficult to get much, much higher.
Divine Might also has synergy with Charging Smite, as this style favors a few big attacks.
I would note that a low Con melee combatant will find Divine Vigor very helpful.
Nyaricus
First Post
Read more into my Half-orc Paladin; he has Charisma as his highest stat (at 24)Nazhkandrias said:
But, I digress from your new ideas...That sound a bit fairy-tale like in regards to the nobles adopting the kid, but I'd take it as a DMNazhkandrias said:
Hmmm, with the build I had, I was trying to cover the tank and the healer role (which I could feasibly do, surprisingly enough
); what role are you primarily trying to fill with you Paladin character? You mention role-playing as a strong point; that combined with a more martial class leads me to think your going for the 'face' role that can also kick some ass.I assume you are going for human? What about half-elf? You could trick out your diplomacy skills with that decent +2 from being a half-elf.
*ALSO* have you looked over the Knight class from PHBII? The Knight is a warrior class which synergises *excellently* with the Paladin class, since they are both Charisma focused classes; and plus being a Knight from a family of nobles works out nicely RPing-wise. I suggest a few levels of this class; you even get Mounted Combat for free at 3rd (??) level.
There are a few PrC's you can shoot for if you plan to go with that wind-motid you were talking about. In Unapproachable East (which is an *amazing* sourcebook, if I do say so myself) there is the Aglarondan Griffonrider, an elite mounted combatant which swoops in on her foes upon a griffon.
You get a bonded mount at first level which gains special abilities; if you are a Paladin, these abilities stack up (synergy again!). The only thing is that the class is generally geared towards improving the mount, and doesn't do much for the rider himself. However, you do get 1/1 BAB, plus a pretty sweet mount - I'm just not sure how far down that path you wish to go, in reagrds to manifesting this wind motif of you character's.
If you're looking to go along the Paladin of Freedom path, Complete Divine and Complete Warrior are going to be your friends in regards to Prestigue Classes; there are tons of choices.
Anywho, gimme a shout back if anything there struck your fancy and we'll chat some more about your new character
cheers,
--N
Nazhkandrias
First Post
Oh, I noticed that, but with a Half-Orc Paladin ballbuster build like that, I assumed that the Charisma represented forceful personality and imposing presence more than social graces and charming demeanor. Sort of like the difference between using Diplomacy and Intimidate to get what you want... they both work!Nyaricus said:Read more into my Half-orc Paladin; he has Charisma as his highest stat (at 24)
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
Well, keep in mind that it's a rough draft. When I say "adopted", I really just mean he's like a vassal being given room and board. And perhaps "lord of a small region" is a better term than "noble". I'm still turning it over in my head, but I'm thinking something along the lines of him helping out the lord first (perhaps the slavemaster wants to raid the lord's castle, and my character escapes his chains to join the fight with the lord's soldiers). This moves from the lord feeling respect for the young boy's bravery to more of a mentor-ish relationship. He receives a soldier's training from one of the lord's knights, then hears the call to become a Paladin. A VERY rough draft, but it seems like a decent story for a Paladin. Hey, at least I didn't put in something about him cradling the head of his mentor as he lays dying in his arms! *Cough* Reference to almost any adventure movie ever made *Cough*Nyaricus said:That sound a bit fairy-tale like in regards to the nobles adopting the kid, but I'd take it as a DM
That's about right, but I wasn't really planning on going full tank or full cannon - a mix of the two. Capability to dish out AND take respectable amounts of damage (not so much with Con as with heavy armor and shield, though). That, along with taking advantage of all of the cool Cha-based Paladin abilities out there (so yes, healer and evil-smiter). As for roleplaying, yes, that's PRECISELY what I was looking for! But not the typical, stuffy ol' grump of a Paladin - noticably more free-spirited (kind of implied with the Paladin of Freedom, I guess).Nyaricus said:
I'll be honest, I don't like half-elves. I roleplay a lot, but the powerplayer side of me balks at the sub-par racials. Human was what I had in mind, what with the laid-back attitude and all. In addition, remember that Diplomacy isn't in-class for a Paladin of Freedom - Bluff replaces it. I'll probably focus more on Bluff, letting my high Cha handle minor Diplomacy from time to time.Nyaricus said:
I think it does synergize excellently, and I am quite familiar with the Knight class (combine it with Dwarven Defender, and you're damn near indestructable), but the alignment requirement is that you have to be Lawful. Paladins of Freedom are Chaotic, and I have to lean on the side of roleplaying here. I think Lawful Good Paladins can be awfully stuffy, and I doubt that I'd have fun playing one.Nyaricus said:
And the wind motif was more of just an armor, shield, and weapon design scheme than anything else. His sword and armor will be silver and swept back, he has a breezy attitude (no pun intended), and he'll probably use a flying mount. That's about as far as it goes.
I know, but don't forget the Book of Exalted Deeds and Complete Champion! Two other excellent Paladin books.
So, any further ideas? I have a much more well-formed idea about what I want to do with this character, but I'd love to hear some more suggestions. I'm especially interested in PrCs that synergize well (and that I can freely multiclass with) Paladin. And if it's an awesome PrC that doesn't allow multiclassing with Paladin, I'll just take Knight Training (Eberron Campaign book), which allows multiclassing ONE class with Paladin. Of course, if my DM is lenient, they'll follow my rules about PrCs and multiclassing... I don't count PrCs towards multiclassing penalites or restrictions as long as it follows the theme of the character (A Druid / Ranger taking Horizon Walker is fine, a Rogue taking Assassin is fine, a Paladin becoming a Blackguard is fine, a Monk becoming a Duelist... not so much). Makes sense, since multiclassing penalties represent the difficulty of keeping two entirely different combat styles in balance at once, and a Cleric becoming a Hierophant isn't far off the mark.
moritheil
First Post
Nazhkandrias said:
Just an aside for anyone confused by this: PrCs never count as multiclassing in terms of XP loss. They only stir up trouble when a class like monk or paladin has the stipulation that one cannot take levels in other classes and then return.
If you're a powergamer, I'm obliged to remind you of the fact that four levels of battle sorc (or one level of battle sorc + precocious apprentice) will get you the ability to cast wraithstrike, which turns your attacks into touch attacks for one round. Obviously, wraithstrike + smite + leaping charge + power attack = pain.
Nyaricus
First Post
Okay, I just looked through BoED, and there are two potential PrCs in there for you:Nazhkandrias said:
- Anoited Knight (Get bonuses which vary in power, and which depend on how high your Cha is. A more tankish class based on Charisma. No spell progression; +2 SkP/level.
- Sword of Righteousness (3 levels, get bonus exalted feats a each one plus good Fort/Will and 1/1 BAB; +4 SkP/level)
Has there been any particular PrCs which you've looked at and liked?
cheers,
--N
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