Paladin Warhorse

[ForceUser]

I think this was a necessary change. In your standard dungeon-crawl D&D campaign, the mount (not to mention all the cool mounted combat feats) isn't very useful. Worse, as the party starts to gain access to high level movement spells such as teleport and word of recall, the mount becomes more of a liability than a boon (a warhorse is very heavy, and that becomes a critical issue for a teleport). More often than not unless the DM takes special measures to help the paladin player out (giving the mount wings, allowing it to shapeshift, etc), the bonded mount ability ends up as a pain in the arse and a disappointment for the paladin player.

Disagree all you want. The 3.5 mount fixes this rather glaring mechanical problem. Nuff said.

 

[John Crichton]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Paladin Warhorse

Fair enough; the point of all this, though, is that we (we here being those with a problem against Summon Mount) are expressing our discontent with the change.

> snip <

Criticism. Yay!

Criticism, and a different view is one thing, but simply stating an opinion without supporting it is another. Simply saying "it sucks and I don't like it" isn't good enough. Additionally, I continue my point because I believe their has been no evidence that the spirit of the change has been considered by certain parties.

I have stated before that it is easy to houserule this change out of a game. I have also considered the classic view of the special mount ability and how folks view it. I also consider the game to be maleable and diverse. If the game is going to improve then certain changes must be attempted. You don't like it, great.

But don't feel the need to defend a troll post (that wasn't yours) because your arguement was much more convincing than the one I responded to. You should give yourself more credit than that.

I want to see the game change. If there are changes I don't like I will either ignore them or tweak them. Besides the books aren't even out yet and we don't know the full extent of this change or how it will be handled or worded for that reason. It's simply another way to look at the whole "mystical mount" thing. Options, man. Options.

 

[Trickstergod]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Paladin Warhorse

Criticism, and a different view is one thing, but simply stating an opinion without supporting it is another. Simply saying "it sucks and I don't like it" isn't good enough. Additionally, I continue my point because I believe their has been no evidence that the spirit of the change has been considered by certain parties.

I'll simply say that's perfectly understandable and reasonable and wait to pounce until I see something worth sinking my teeth into.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Lord P: I could see your idea being added easily to the Paladin spell list. I may even incorporate it into my campaign world. Having it be a spell rather than an ability still limits it but gives the player the option of having it be available.

You know, I think I'll ask my DM about such a spell. My paladin can only cast 1st-level spells, but 2nd-level are only a level away.

 

[John Crichton]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Paladin Warhorse

I'll simply say that's perfectly understandable and reasonable and wait to pounce until I see something worth sinking my teeth into.

Hey, works for me.

If I see something in there I don't like or doesn't make any sense I'll be right there with you with my complaints in hand.

 

[John Crichton]

You know, I think I'll ask my DM about such a spell. My paladin can only cast 1st-level spells, but 2nd-level are only a level away.

That could be a really cool spell. I think a 2nd or 3rd level slot is appropriate. I'm going to poll my players and the DM of my other group to see what they think...

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

While I poke fun at Percy the giant squid mount (Noooooooo!), I don't really care one way or another about this rule. Out of all the new rules I would hazard the guess that this one is the easiest to house rule back to the Stone Age if that is your wish.

In the last campaign I was in my friend Eric played a paladin. In the first session his mount was injured by a polymorphed ogre. I will leave it to you, gentle reader, to puzzle out why a polymorphed ogre was anywhere near three 1st level PCs.
Anyway. Somewhere around 2nd level it was almost killed by a wolfwere. Finally it was eaten by owlbears. This was all before 3rd level if memory serves. I don't recall how number two bought the farm. The third one was given to him by a religious order. It died during a simultaneous attack by a swarm of stirges and an umber hulk, though the DM fudged like a madman to let the paladin save it.
It was also constantly being left behind. On one occasion it couldn't go down into a dungeon. No prob, if an umber hulk and its adopted owl bear and stirge parents don't eat it, we'll get it when we come out. But we didn't come out. Instead we had to ride the DM railroad express through a portal and ended up a few hundred miles away.

If Eric could have had that horse disappear for a while instead of being a meal on the hoof for the creeping unknown. I bet he'd have done it.

Hikaru, Scarbonac; I'm glad I could make you guys laugh. I had fun writing it.

In my campaign I have a guy that wrote up a whole back story for his PC who inherited a whistle from his dead father which when blown will summon a pegasus mount because he wants to be a paladin. *gasp*
We've all seen this.
Well, he understands he'll have to wait until 7th level and that's cool with him.
With the new system it actually works out really well. He blows the whistle, his mount can swoop in from over the horizon and aid him. When time runs out the pegasus leaves him eating dust because, let's face it, pegasi have better things to do; like mating with confused ponies and crapping on those really huge statues that exist in all fantasy worlds. Who are we kidding, do you know how many pigeons it would take?

It's been said before; whether or not this uses the mechanics of the summon spell, it doesn't have to be a spell. It's more like a summons to court, or to dine with the king.
It doesn't have to poof. Maybe it just shows up from around the corner somehow.

Note: FYI, Eric's horse was essentially killed three times before he reached 10th level. If I want to beat that level of DM negligence (he just couldn't think of anything better to do) I'll have to kill that pegasus three times between 7th and 10th... Nah, I'll leave it alone.

 

[Thels]

Can't say I'm fond of this change. My paladin just reached the level where she could get herself a warhorse as his mount, though she's in a dungeon and is also slightly more interested in the more fancier mounts that can be called upon at level 6 (using DotF rules). I actually expected the mount to be a companion that moves around with you and needs to be taken care of. Yeah, it might be a burden at some times, but ain't that part of the game?

The Light Warhorse I bought myself at level 1 is still waiting in some inn. I guess I'll just keep it as my main mount, taking a Dire Wolf or something as my special mount that I could summon in combat, let it fight for me and dismiss it afterwards, cuz that's what WotC wants it to be now. I don't feel building up a connection with a being that gets summoned every now and then, thank you.

 

[WanderingMonster]

WotC are just taking the rules in the same direction that the bulk of their consumers seem to take them. Or in this case, fix a class feature that the bulk of players don't use as often.

I hope this revision features a similar fix for players who can't make it to a given night's game.

DM:Does anyone know if Bob is coming?

Player1:No. He had to work. It's okay, though. His wizard can ride my warhorse for the evening.

Player2:Wait! I'll just cast Leomund's Dimensional Dugout. Now Bob's wizard can just hang out until he shows up next week!

 

[LightPhoenix]

I can understand how this is supposed to work, and given the right circumstances it might be cool. I'm not so sure I would use it though, since it very much seems like a *poof* sort of answer.

I think if I were to use it, it would be you can summon your horse, but not dismiss it. So if you get teleported off somewhere at the end of a dungeon, your horse will show up in a few hours.