Paladin's Challenge Question

[MeMeMeMe]

I think some of the confusion in this thread is caused by this sentence: On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target.

What I think this sentence means is this:
Each turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target.

With this rewording, it becomes apparent that in fact the mark does have a Sustain: entry - to sustain it, you must continue to engage the target (by attacking it or ending your turn adjacent). Once you fail to do either of those, the mark drops.
Also, this means that each time you engage the target, the mark is being re-established, without needing an extra minor action to do it.

So, the extra damage question: the damage dealing ability of the mark is restored each time you maintain the mark. Each time you sustain the mark, the monster can take damage - but only once each time the power is sustained.

 

[Calidarien]

Hmm, actually, your argument about thinking about it as a special type of sustaining is gaining a lot of traction in my mind. So it breaks down like this:

1) Divine Challenge an enemy
2) It becomes or stays marked and, for a limited time ("before your next turn"), it has a chance of taking radiant damage.
3) Now when your turn comes around again, it's the "next turn", so the chance of radiant damage expires (for now), and, you can now choose whether to sustain the challenge on the enemy by engaging it (by the end of your turn).
4) If you do engage the enemy, then go back to step 2. Otherwise, go to step 5.
5) Now "the marked condition ends", and you don't need to explicitly say that the chance of radiant damage ends because it only lasts for a limited time *each* time (from your current turn to before your next turn)

(I realize that I'm pretty much repeating exactly what you said, but I wanted to talk it out.) Okay, I think I can get on board with that (and I actually better understand other people's arguments as well). I imagine my paladin player will be pleased... =)

Under this reading, the chance of radiant damage will actually not be present during your own turn because it expires at the start of turns and doesn't kick in again until after you have sustained the challenge by engaging the enemy. Of course, I don't immediately recall any way for the enemy to attack someone that's not you on your turn, so I guess that may be a moot point.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Sure there is. Hostage situation for starters.
"Move, Paladin, and I'll gut the girl."
I.e. readied action to attack the hostage if you move or attack.

 

[MeMeMeMe]

Hi, Calidarian. I've added an extra step below, which you have probably already taken into account.

1) Divine Challenge an enemy
1a) engage the target immediately, so the mark lasts till next turn
2) It becomes or stays marked and, for a limited time ("before your next turn"), it has a chance of taking radiant damage.
3) Now when your turn comes around again, it's the "next turn", so the chance of radiant damage expires (for now), and, you can now choose whether to sustain the challenge on the enemy by engaging it (by the end of your turn).
4) If you do engage the enemy, then go back to step 2. Otherwise, go to step 5.
5) Now "the marked condition ends", and you don't need to explicitly say that the chance of radiant damage ends because it only lasts for a limited time *each* time (from your current turn to before your next turn)

 

[Calidarien]

Sure there is. Hostage situation for starters.
"Move, Paladin, and I'll gut the girl."
I.e. readied action to attack the hostage if you move or attack.

Ah, yes, of course, stupid me. I shouldn't make statements like that when I'm too tired to think it through. Okay, then, per my (latest) reading, an enemy could perhaps avoid the radiant damage chance by readying an attack against a third party that triggers before the paladin can sustain the challenge by engaging. That does seem like a rather artificial loophole, though...

Hi, Calidarian. I've added an extra step below, which you have probably already taken into account.

Hmm, I guess I was under the (incorrect?) impression that the paladin did not need to engage the enemy on that first turn that he challenged, but only on subsequent turns (to sustain the challenge). I read "on your turn" as "[now that the enemy has been marked and more until "before your next turn", and it's back to your initiative again,] on your turn". Well, I have to dwell on this, but I guess since I'm already giving my paladin player something, I might as well take something away. =P

 

[Lurker37]

The paladin definitely has to engage the enemy on the turn they challenge it. Otherwise the challenge drops and the PC loses the ability to use it for a turn.

This is why they didn't just write the power up as "Sustain: Special (see below)"