Paladin's Mount - Half-Celestial Riding Dog

[Thanee]

Wondering about how to do this...

Riding Dog is 2 HD and has CR 1, so as a Half-Celestial it has CR 2 (HD 1-5).

Now the paladin is 9th level, thus the CR 2 creature, which is available at 6th level, gains +4 bonus HD, raising its total to 6 HD.

Ok, so far so good.

What happens with the Half-Celestial template now?

Does the mount gain the additional spell-like abilities and all that?

If so, it would raise the mount's CR by another +1, since HD are now within the 6-10 limit.

And if that happens, the Half-Celestial Riding Dog would be CR 3 and thus available at 7th level and therefore would have gained only +2 bonus HD, not +4.

Ok, the easy approach is, to simply not grant any improvements for the template from the bonus HD, but is this usually right that way or not?

Another possibility would be to simply wait with the advancement for another level then, where the result becomes viable not only before applying the changes, but also afterwards.

It's not specifically listed in the PHB, but there it lists pretty much everything a creature normally gains for advancing in HD (hp, BAB, saves, skills, feats).

So basically, the question is...

Does a Half-Celestial Paladin's Mount gain Half-Celestial abilities according to its base HD or its base HD plus bonus HD?

Bye
Thanee

 

[The Souljourner]

I'd say base hit dice only. It's the easiest to calculate, and doesn't change the power level of the mount.

-The Souljourner

 

[Thanee]

Yes, that would be the easiest, as I said myself. But is it the way it is meant to be done or should it normally work the other way around?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Oh, and while we are at it, does a Half-Celestial Paladin's Mount count as a magical beast or an outsider?

Bye
Thanee

 

[The Souljourner]

Outsider. The paladin mount "counts as magical beast" should only apply if the mount would normally be an animal.

As for the original question, I really don't know that there is a way it's meant to be done. This seems to work - since mounts don't get bigger from more hitdice, they shouldn't get other racial abilities dependant on hitdice (how many hitdice it takes to increase in size is racially dependant). Obviously, feats, skillpoints, and ability score increases are not racially dependant abilities (number of skillpoints is, but whether or not you get them is not).

-The Souljourner

 

[Artoomis]

Here's the way we did it, and I think it's correct.

Forget about CR - that does not matter. LA might matter, but I think this is listed in the DMG as a mount available. Don't make this harder than it is.

Second, The number of hit die the dog has is the number of hit die the dog has. Full benefits accrue - SR, resistences, etc.

Simplicity itself. None of this is game-breaking stuff, it will only help the mount survive and make it a more viable part of the game.

Here's what I came up with at 16th level paladin for a half-celestial riding dog:

Hit Dice: 10d8+40 (104 hp)(base 2 hit die + 8 hit die from Paladin's Mount)
Init: +4
Speed : 50 ft. (10 squares), Fly, 50ft. (good)
AC: 29 (+4 Dex, +15 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 25
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to disease.
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and electricity 10.
DR 5/Magic (Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more)).
Bite is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
SR 20. (Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35)).
+4 racial bonus on Fortitude saves against poison.
Improved Speed
Empathic link
Improved evasion
Share spells
Share saving throws
Feathered wings (fly with good maneuverability)

Saves: Fort +14 (18 vs. Poison), Ref +11, Will +8 (Mount/Pal Base: Fort +7/+10, Ref +7/+5, Will +3/+5)

Abilities: Str 23, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 10 (+1 Str and Dex for 4th and 8th Hit Die)

Level Adjustment (if anyone cares): +6 (+2 Half-Celestial, +2 Paladin's Mount)

A few other things, plus equipment of course, but that's the essence of it.

 

[Artoomis]

Just for fun, here's the back story of how Gibley ended up with a Half-Celestial riding dog.

Perrigo – Half-Celestial Riding Dog Paladin's Mount

Odif is Gibley's current paladin's mount at the time of this story – a celestial riding dog. Gibley is, of course, the paladin, a halfing.

The story...

Ever wondered what paladin's mounts do their off-time? Well, wonder no more.

About 2 years before the present time, Odif met a particularly comely and personable awakened lady riding dog by the name of Koetje. It seems that a druid had need of a companion of modest size, and could not have picked a better companion than Koetje. Odif was lucky enough that his master, Gibley, was destined to be nearby for some weeks during one of his adventures, wherein he… ah, but that's another story.

Well, as you might imagine, romance was in the air. Despite knowing that Odif's duties would require him to leave, they had a passionate love affair.

Some months later, Koetje was blessed with the birth of Perrigo, a most extraordinary creature. That Perrigo should turn out to be unusual is not too surprising, given his parentage. Perrigo was born with unusual intelligence (well, for a dog), and also is a half-celestial riding dog. Well, Koetje regaled Perrigo with many stories of Odif (brief though their romance was), and Perrigo is now determined to take over Odif's duties as an oath-sworn mount to Gibley, a paladin of some renown. Perrigo feels strongly both that he is up to the task and that Odif should be free to live with his lady-love, should the gods and Gibley allow it.

So Perrigo journeys on to give his parents the greatest gift he can – a joyous reunion and a life spent in love together. He hopes that when he finds Gibley, that Gibley will accept his offer of servitude in the place of Odif. This, he believes, is his destiny.

 

[Thanee]

So you used the Base HD+Bonus HD as HD for all template benefits?

Just asking, since you say nothing about spell-like abilities, for example.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Liquidsabre]

Unusual mounts have some restrictions on their progression based on CR in the DMG p.204 Unusual Mounts:

"The mount's CR should be no more than 3 less than the rider's character level. If the mount can fly the CR should be no more than 4 less than the rider's character level."


Here's the HD/CR breakdown and it appears that a paladin would be eligiable to have such a mount (all template modifiers should be added to the mount as normal) and makes one wonder why a paladin would have any other kinds of mounts, though the DM should make obtaining such a mount only through quests of course.

Riding Dog CR 1 (2 HD), CR +1 (5HD), CR +2 (8HD)
Half-Celestial Template CR +1 (HD 1-5), CR +2 (HD 6-10), CR +3 (HD 11+)

Paladin 5th-7th
Half-Celestial Riding Dog (4HD) CR 2 = min. Pal 6th

Paladin 8th-10th
Half-Celestial Riding Dog (6HD) CR 4 = min. Pal 8th

Paladin 11th-14th
Half-Celestial Riding Dog (8HD) CR 5 = min. Pal 9th

Paladin 15th-20th
Half-Celestial Riding Dog (10HD) CR 5

All the effects of the half-celestial template should be added as normal to the mount, and with a Wis 16 this includes the spell-like abilities as well. Though with an Int 4 (still considered an outsider as well) not sure how well the mount could make use of them, but the mount still has access to them.