Paladins: Why are they balanced?

[drothgery]

Give the Paladin a Holy Sword. Balance problem fixed.

Any good-aligned character who can use a sword can use one. Balance problem unfixed.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Well, there's two ways the paladin can be handled. No, wait, actually three, but I only consider two of them to be elegible:

1: You have the paladin as a base class, like fighter or rogue. That means that it's relatively easy to qualify for the class, you could even say that everyone who has the proper outlook on life can become one, but they're no stronger or weaker than rogues or fighters (well, not meant to be: The aim is to make them equal)

2: You make paladins more powerful than your average fighter, but it becomes a PrC. That means that not every boy and girl can start out being a paladin - they have to build up some martial prowess first, and get some spiritual puissance first, and, of course, the proper dedication to the cause. Then, they can be admitted into the ranks of divine champions of good and law, defensers of justice.

3: You leave them base classes, and make them more powerful, and 3 out of 4 characters will play paladins. If you do something like the silly "must have str x and cha y" from olden days, they'll be annoyed that they have to play a "lesser character". That's not how I like my games.

 

[Hussar]

Any good-aligned character who can use a sword can use one. Balance problem unfixed.

I believe he was referring to a Holy Avenger.

 

[drothgery]

I believe he was referring to a Holy Avenger.

Bah. Not available before 14th level under DMG wealth guidelines, and with typical 'no one item should be more than 25% of your wealth' limitations, not available before 19th level.

 

[Slife]

For the same reason that clerics aren't equally pumped up (and more dieties are likely to have cleric champions than pally ones) - there must be some kind of constraint on how much dieties can interfere with that kind of stuff. Perhaps the constraint is from the whole group of dieties limiting each other. Maybe the mortal is limited in awesomeness by his own spiritual potential. It's not that the god isn't letting the low level cleric cast True Res or Miracle, the cleric's ability is the limit.

But clerics are the second most powerful class in the game. Right after druids.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If the paladin's getting more powered up, the ninja needs even more power. No, make that REAL ULTIMATE POWER.

 

[Darklone]

I think the paladin is a pretty strong class... but often people overlook it's defensive capacities because he's not that strong (without charging!).

Yet he has the best saves and usually among the best ACs in the group. And scarcely anyone has more hitpoints.

If there's one thing I noticed about all paladins in my groups: "Last man standing" was the nickname they all had in common. Actually in one group, the paladin was the one who saved the day most often compared to the other ones... simply by surviving even if the whole group was dead, dying or disabled on the floor.

 

[senodam]

Paladins are more powerful than the average guy- compare them to Warriors, Experts and such.

They just tend to hang around with guys who can rework reality itself to suit their every whim, mighty barbarian heroes, masters of combat in all it's forms and other PC types.

 

[SteveC]

Hmmn, I think this is a very good question to ask, because the paladin should be mechanically more powerful than other classes. Why is that? Because they are unique in having a mechanical penalty for not being roleplayed properly.

3E designers went out of their way to say that mechanical benefits shouldn't be given to balance roleplaying penalties, and that makes a lot of sense to me. The problem in the paladin's case is that he has a mechanical penalty for roleplaying, but has no corresponding bonus to go with it. Or at least that's the way it seems to me: I would say that if you took away the alignment and code restrictions for the paladin, he would still be perfectly balanced with other classes out of the PHB. He might even be a bit on the weak side of the curve.

Once you throw in the code, you have a character that is definitely weaker than average. Playing a paladin is a lot more difficult than most other characters, because you have to live up to a code of conduct that your GM can use to put you in very difficult situations that you have to resolve in a particular manner, or you lose all of your abilities.

So that's why I'd say that the paladin deserves a power-up.

--Steve

 

[Victim]

Once you throw in the code, you have a character that is definitely weaker than average. Playing a paladin is a lot more difficult than most other characters, because you have to live up to a code of conduct that your GM can use to put you in very difficult situations that you have to resolve in a particular manner, or you lose all of your abilities.

So that's why I'd say that the paladin deserves a power-up.

--Steve

On the other hand, since the paladin is mechanically balanced without their code, the GM is under no obligation to screw them with it to make up for their extra abilities. How problematic the code is mostly up to the GM. And there's always a phylactory of faithfulness.

But clerics are the second most powerful class in the game. Right after druids.

Yeah. It's effectively a bribe since most groups desire a cleric a round, but many people don't want to play them. Druids seem strong in core, but really take off with supplements since they can use crazy new spells and new monsters.