Palladium and other fantasy RPGs...

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Rifts and Palladium Fantasy were my antidote to 2E D&D for many years. I knew that they were horribly munchkin, but my friends were horrible munchkins, so no one really minded all that much. However, a certain malaise set in for me, right before 3E D&D came out. I picked up the PHB out of curiosity and never looked back.

All in all though, PFRPG was a pretty fun world. Dragons & Gods was one of the best god books I've picked up for any game, although I've always been mystified by why the Egyptian gods are so important in a medieval fantasy world. The Baalgor Wastelands book had lots of mid-to-high-level fun. The Western Empire book and Timiro Kingdom in the Old Ones book were a curious mix of super-detailed cities and towns (in a way I'd like to see D&D try), and a dearth of important details like culture, laws and government.

Shadowlord, it sounds like you've already made your mind up about the Palladium rules set, so I'm not going to tell you what you've already heard. I will caution you that Palladium fans get only a smidge more respect here at ENWorld than FATAL fans. That said, I'd still recommend porting it over to a better rules set. Maybe not D20, if that ain't your bag, but 1E or (ugh) 2E might be better. The best parts of PFRPG are the parts that don't have or need stats, IMHO.

 

[Griswold]

I knew that they were horribly munchkin, but my friends were horrible munchkins, so no one really minded all that much.

Only in a Palladium RPG can you play Gandalf in a battlesuit armed with a super-laser

The settings are cool in an over-the-top munchkin kind of way, the rules are at the least munchkin and at the worst broken.

I've played Rifts and Robotech and they were both fun.

-S.

 

[Welverin]

I mean, I'm not going to call it here, but... If it walks like a duck and quaks like a duck...

And regenerates?

 

[Belgarath]

palladium need some work

I have played a few palladium games such as the FRP, Rifts, and Nightspawn (the previous name for Nightbane).

I personally don't care for the front loading of the characters. A wizard can start off with almost 200 PPE (or mana) at first level and then he will recieve an average of 10 points per level beyond that. A warrior at 1st level fighter can take around 80 points of damage, but that only increases 1d6 per level beyond that. Oh, and that d6 hit points is for eveyone. There is no such things as increased hit dice for professions.

There are 3 levels of combat training, but the differences in them is slight. At 10th level, which is pretty high considering how the experience system works, you may have an addtional +1 to parry/dodge and roll with punch/fall/impact and that is about it.

In the first edition, each class had a certain fighting style that was either given or could be bought, but no other. With the new rules any character can potentially take the same level of combat training as the best warrior.

Then there is the idea of secondary skills. These are supposed to be skills that you have picked up outside of your training in your profession, but the ones you may choose are skill limited by your profession. One of the first things that I had to house rule.

Worn armor in this system has a damage capacity that it can absorb called SDC. If an attack roll is less than the armor rating, then the armor takes the damage not the character. In theory it is a good idea, but it is another thing to keep track of on your character sheet. This is made worse by the fact that natural armor adds to your personal damage capacity, but if the attack roll is lower than the armor rating, then NO damage is taken.

These are just some of the rules that really blow chunks.

 

[Shadowlord]

I get the picture now; the rules aren't the best. OK. I understand that rules have "some" importance, but with d20 people seem to forget what makes RPGs so great, and that's the interaction with the characters and the world.

For ex, I like to hear my companion's story from where he comes and what he does here (especially dwarves with their grand family ties & honor). That kind of fun moments are great, and they create something you "believe" in a way. I wouldn't ask if you're a sorcerer/monk or how many HP or which feats you've got... Although that seems to be the way with d20 nowadays.

Anyway, I understand Palladium wouldn't be perfect neither. I found another game though: Harnmaster and Runequest with their settings Harnworld and Glorantha. These aren't for sale anymore it seems, but they sounded so good. Pretty easy rules but less powered and more realistic than D&D. A percentile system a bit like Warhammer but more expanded (WH was too limited as both a system and the world).

I read everythjing you people wrote, so don't think I'm settled with Palladium. I'm not and I'm still listening. Someone mentioned Ars Magic (and Harn). Could you tell me about AM's system. The setting is like medieval Earth it seems with only some magical & mystical elements added. I'm searching for something more "fantastic" though.

I also heard of Chaosium's Stormbringer, some kind of dark fantasy. Does it run under the same Harnmaster rules; is the setting classic with elves & dwarves etc?

Man, this is an epic search to find the right RPG.

 

[Tsyr]

I get the picture now; the rules aren't the best. OK. I understand that rules have "some" importance, but with d20 people seem to forget what makes RPGs so great, and that's the interaction with the characters and the world.

No, honestly, I'm not sure you get the picture yet. I fully understand that good rules aren't everything, and that setting is more important. I understand all this. What you don't seem to get is that the rules in palladium actualy hinder the interaction with characters and rules. That's what we have been trying to say.

Anyway, I understand Palladium wouldn't be perfect neither. I found another game though: Harnmaster and Runequest with their settings Harnworld and Glorantha. These aren't for sale anymore it seems, but they sounded so good. Pretty easy rules but less powered and more realistic than D&D. A percentile system a bit like Warhammer but more expanded (WH was too limited as both a system and the world).

Someone is trying to resurect RQ I think, and last I checked Harn was still availibile...

I read everythjing you people wrote, so don't think I'm settled with Palladium. I'm not and I'm still listening. Someone mentioned Ars Magic (and Harn). Could you tell me about AM's system. The setting is like medieval Earth it seems with only some magical & mystical elements added. I'm searching for something more "fantastic" though.

Quite the opposite in a way with Ars Magica... In Ars Magica, the entire game basicly revolves around playing mages. Best magic system ever, in any game.

I also heard of Chaosium's Stormbringer, some kind of dark fantasy. Does it run under the same Harnmaster rules; is the setting classic with elves & dwarves etc?

No and No. It uses BRP rules, same as used in the original Call of Cthullu, Elfquest, and Runequest RPGs, I believe (Never actualy played it personaly, I'll grant). It's not really standard DnD at all, though it's hard to explain what it is. I'd suggest reading the Elric books to get an explanation of the world.

 

[Shadowlord]

Someone is trying to resurect RQ I think, and last I checked Harn was still availibile...

Where did you see this? Online or in a store? Is it available in Europe?

About Ars Magica,
so you're saying that you can have as much fantasy on Earth as you want? I can hardly imagine Orcs in AM... or are they present? Probably neither dwarves and such.

 

[Tsyr]

Where did you see this? Online or in a store? Is it available in Europe?

As for Runequest, I seem to remember it being discussed on these boards a few months back, or maybe it was over on the rpg.net boards. Sorry, no "official" source comes to mind, though.

As for Harn... http://www.columbiagames.com/

About Ars Magica,
so you're saying that you can have as much fantasy on Earth as you want? I can hardly imagine Orcs in AM... or are they present? Probably neither dwarves and such.

Yes and no. Fantastical creatures exist, but it's more in accord with the old folk legends and myths... The fae exist in many iterations, etc.

 

[Voadam]

The ars magica core book is released as a free download on www.rpgnow.com so you can check it out wherever you are.

It does have the best magic system of any rpg. I have used a lot of stuff from it in my D&D games.

However the setting is wizards in medieval earth, so no PC orcs although dwarves show up as a type of fairy.

You also might want to check out Earthdawn, horrible d6 rule system similar to Shadowrun, but great high fantasy setting and great magic and class flavors. Orcs and dwarves running around all over the place.

 

[JeffB]

For information on the curent RPG set in Glorantha (HeroWars, being renamed to HeroQuest) check out www.glorantha.com. I understand where the original poster is coming form about Rules, and HeroWars sounds right up your alley. It's a narrative game with a rules light approach.

also, Earthdawn dd not use a D6 system. It used a system of "steps" where each step (which generally was a combo of skill ranks plus ability score modifiers) yielded a certain die combination, e.g. :
Step 5 was D8,
Step 6 was D10
Step 9 was D6 + D8
(you'll notice that the average roll of the dice in question was equal to the step number).

Many folks including myself felt/feel that ED had one of the best Dice mechanics ever. It scaled very well regardless of character level, power. This roll, like many systems nowadays, had to beat a target number.

Earthdawn like Gloranth, Tekumel, and handful of other fantasy games had one of the freshest and most innovative settings ever, IMO. The game is still being published by LivingRoom games (www.lrgames.com)

I ran a Palladium fantasy game a few years back, and I have to agree. Cool setting, the rules can REALLY get in the way unless you have a good group of players who are not rules laywers and/or powergamers looking to exploit everything.

All that being said, most game balance IMO, is in the hands of the Gm/DM/Referee, and they MUST make sure thay plan appropriately so that EVERY character has a chance to shine somehow. If your character sucks at combat, the Gm should allow for situations where that sucky combat character can make a difference in the course of the adventure. This is one problem I have with 3E, because it tries really hard to make everyone "shine" in a combat and/or a dungeon delving role. The focus is there, but as I said before a good DM can counteract such assumptions in the rules and provide fun for everyone.