Palladium?

[prosfilaes]

Are the complaints coming from other people in your industry that you know or from random people across the world who mostly do so aninomnously over the net? Where the complaints come from also matters. And we don't know he is ignoring all critism.

They're coming from my customers, who are more important than other people in my industry.

 

[Crothian]

They're coming from my customers, who are more important than other people in my industry.

Remember, the people that buy Palladium are still telling him the games are great. It's the people who are mostly not his customers complaining.

 

[prosfilaes]

Remember, the people that buy Palladium are still telling him the games are great. It's the people who are mostly not his customers complaining.

And we know that how? And he knows that how? And even if it's true, you need to get prospective customers happy, and you need to listen to ex-customers to prevent your current customers from becoming ex-customers.

 

[Treebore]

There are also a lot like me, own a lot of RIFTS and Paladium Fanatasy, and other books, and left because we realized Kevin wasn't going to revamp the system so we moved on and found better systems with which to use the RIFTS setting and O.C.C.'s, and have a lot more fun because we aren't spending so much time tinkering with the system and writing up pages (12+ pages, in my case) of house rules to deal with them.

I really like the setting, the concepts, and the ideas, but the system sucks, and still does. Until he fixes it Kevin will never win people like me back into the fold.

Plus the fact that I have found BESM by Guardians of Order to be such and excellent replacement system he will now have an even bigger problem getting me to come back. Plus when I get tired of my current games of Castles and Crusades and my Castles and Crusades Traveller (used the SIEGE engine of C&C and kept the game skills based), I'll look into adapting the C&C SIEGE engine into running a RIFTS campaign. If I successfully do that then I will never go back, no need or desire will exist.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Some customers are saying that. Others are still saying he's doing a great job. And ya he might be arrogant thinking that becasue he owns the company he knows best.



Do people feel frustrated with the hoards of people that only buy D&D and ignore the rest of the RPG market? THere are fans like that of White Wolf, GURPS, and I imagine most big games. I can understand that there are fans that want KS to change the game so they would like it, but why should he risk losing the loyal fans that like it how it is? And it is no sure thing that if he changed the system it would be successful. It just might not be a risk he's not willing to take.

Gods yes, of course there are people who feel frustration with D&D fanatics, GURPS fanatics, Storyteller fanatics, etc. The two most obnoxious groups of gaming fanatics I have met are for D&D and GURPS. The two groups are so alike as to be indestinguishable. One of the GURPS players went so far as to pull a starter box of D&D out of a child's hands at Borders, it made me feel ashamed to be a gamer.

The Rifts fanatics that I have met on the other hand have been quiet folk, just very insular, having nothing to do with other systems, and not trying to bring people into the One True Game (tm). I may not like the system, but I have no problems with the players. The comparisons to religion can be quite acute in regards to both games and operating systems...

The reason to take the risk is the chance of increasing market share. WotC took a chance with the OGL, and it paid off. Others have not been so fortunate, but sometimes it is worth taking the risk.

The Auld Grump

 

[Crothian]

And we know that how? And he knows that how? And even if it's true, you need to get prospective customers happy, and you need to listen to ex-customers to prevent your current customers from becoming ex-customers.

I'm not going to speculate on what he knows or doesn't know or how he came upon said informaiton. I'm not saying he's doing the best job he could, but really I have no idea. But once you've said your peace why keep at it? I mean its not even like KS reads these baords.

 

[Crothian]

The reason to take the risk is the chance of increasing market share. WotC took a chance with the OGL, and it paid off. Others have not been so fortunate, but sometimes it is worth taking the risk.

And sometimes it isn't worth it. It's easy for us to tell him to take a chance because if he fails we have lost nothing. It is a lot different when it is your own well being on line. So, I'm going to fault the guy for not taking a chance. It is his choice and who are we to say he got it wrong?

 

[Felon]

There are also a lot like me, own a lot of RIFTS and Paladium Fanatasy, and other books, and left because we realized Kevin wasn't going to revamp the system so we moved on and found better systems with which to use the RIFTS setting and O.C.C.'s, and have a lot more fun because we aren't spending so much time tinkering with the system and writing up pages (12+ pages, in my case) of house rules to deal with them.

I really like the setting, the concepts, and the ideas, but the system sucks, and still does. Until he fixes it Kevin will never win people like me back into the fold.

That's the pity of it all. If it was just another game I'd picked up and decided I wasn't interested in, I wouldn't care about its fate one way or the other. But RIFTS has a lot of great content. It's just packaged in a terrible system. I want to be KS's customer. He just needs to improve his product.

I'm not going to speculate on what he knows or doesn't know or how he came upon said informaiton. I'm not saying he's doing the best job he could, but really I have no idea. But once you've said your peace why keep at it? I mean its not even like KS reads these baords.

It seems that all you've got left to do at this point in your role of devil's advocate is speak in equivocal terms.

Regarding "saying our peace", as the guy whose chief ambition is to maintain the highest post count in the forum, I suspect you should be able to understand why people engage in discussion when all of the chatter ulitmately has no impact on the world at large. Self-expression is its own reward.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

And sometimes it isn't worth it. It's easy for us to tell him to take a chance because if he fails we have lost nothing. It is a lot different when it is your own well being on line. So, I'm going to fault the guy for not taking a chance. It is his choice and who are we to say he got it wrong?

Potential customers?

The player/ex-player comment made above is also a reason. I know that locally at least Palladium has a shrinking market share, how much from competition, how much from a sluggish local economy, and how much from people leaving RPGs in general I cannot say. (The new WoD/Storyteller system is suffering locally as well.)

Another sticking point for some people is K.S's tendency to sue at any opportunity. This did not help TSR's reputation, and does not help his either. This actually does bother me.

Ah well, I suspect that we could argue with each other 'til the cows come home, with neither of us much influencing the other's feelings on the matter. So howabout dem Mets?

The Auld Grump

 

[Crothian]

It seems that all you've got left to do at this point in your role of devil's advocate is speak in equivocal terms.

Regarding "saying our peace", as the guy whose chief ambition is to maintain the highest post count in the forum, I suspect you should be able to understand why people engage in discussion when all of the chatter ulitmately has no impact on the world at large. Self-expression is its own reward.

You can call this Devil's Advocate if you want. And if you knew me at all you would know post count doesn't matter to me at all. But I have noticed you do like to hold it against me at all costs. Why I have no idea.

Discussion is great, but in this case there is nothing new being added by anyone. Some people want Palladium to change, and that's great for them. Some of those folk have reasons and others are just jumping on the pile. But after about a dozen of these threads in the past few months it does get a little old.