Palladium?

[Crothian]

Ah well, I suspect that we could argue with each other 'til the cows come home, with neither of us much influencing the other's feelings on the matter. So howabout dem Mets?

I'm not sure, but the Cleveland almost won the series against the Pistons!!

 

[Nomad4life]

Btw, can I use steal your quote for my sig, modified, of course, "Evil never dies -- it just gets Resurrected or Animated."

Well, it's not really "my" quote, so you don't really need my permission?

 

[raif11152]

Remember, the people that buy Palladium are still telling him the games are great. It's the people who are mostly not his customers complaining.

The thing to recognize is that it is those non-customers that are the exact reasons his company is suffering at this very moment.

I saw the RIFTS "Ultimate Edition" hardbound book at my local gamestore and flipped through it hoping that after 10 years of not looking at a palladium publication, he would give me something to latch onto. But imagine my disappointment when all it seemed to be was the same ole rules with, perhaps, a slightly better editing job (though someone PLEASE explain why game rules and character creation starts on page 274 while O.C.C.s, Magic and toys are all presented well before).

His business being in the spot it is in is a direct result of him ignoring his consumer potential, i.e. the people who WANT to play but request a system update, vs. his significantly smaller dedicated fan base.

TSR went out of business for a bevy of reasons, WotC is different in that they know what their fans typically want (High quality, reasonably well edited books with fantastic art). This model works as well for other game companies such as White Wolf and Steve Jackson Games to name but a few.

If K.S. looks at his game system from an artist’s perspective, that is fine, he will join the ranks of starving artists in this world. If he wants to run a successful business, he MUST look at what is causing his consumer base to erode while others gain.

 

[Catavarie]

The problem, as I see it, with converting Palladium system to d20 system is that the two systems are fundimentally different, Palladium is more skill centric while d20 is Attribute centric...now that being said let me explain my thinking:

Palladium uses the attributes to bolster skill scores which most checks are against: you want to break dow a door? well whats you Door Break Skill? Roll the dice

D20 is more about the attributes, skills and feats are bolstered by the attributes and yet we seem to keep going back to what is the attribute to determine a vast number of rolls made

Also I realize that a large number of people are upset by the fact that not all the character classes in Palladium (specifically RIFTS) do not seem equally powerful on the surface, people want to scream class balance, why must all classes be equally as powerful? I'm not as powerful as the Body builders at my gym or as knowledgable as the engineers that put the shuttles into space, nor do I have any clue what to do when my car starts to sputter and wheeze...people in general aren't all equal and yet we seem to all get through life...so what if a Glitter Boy can level a building in 1 shot, it takes him 2 minutes to rotate 180 degrees from firing position, and big deal if the Vagabond has next to no gear and low skill scores, if that bothers you then don't play the "weak classes" I find that people who play these "weaker" classes tend to be the ones who live the longest due to a sense of paranoia and having to think beyond the "I hit it" mentality of playing so many people seem to be into...now I'll agree that alot of the rules themselves are broken and insufficient and definately need a good coat of bondo to keep the game flowing well but these are easier to fix than just giving the Palladium system a D20 overhaul, I personally have never had a problem with the character creation process of either system and the rules which are flawed in both systems can be fixed with some common sense rulings...but that is just my 2 cents

 

[Imruphel]

From http://unclebear.com/comments.php?id=P2612_0_1_0

Palladium Case Solved?
From the Kingsport Times-News:

Steve Sheiring, the former sales manager at Palladium Books, was sentenced to one year non-reporting probation on April 20 in the 3rd Circuit Court in Detroit. According to prosecutors, Sheiring paid $47,080 in restitution to Palladium Books.

Wait, what about Kevin Siembieda's claim that between $850,000 and $1.3 million had been ripped off? Oh, wait, those were Siembieda's personal items, and not company assets. The actual charges stated Sheiring embezzeled $20,000.

Prosecutors cannot confirm the value of the items stolen.

"We usually don't do it that way," Miller (Maria Miller, assistant district attorney in the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office) said. "If he's trading goods and services and intangibles and things that have an auction value, then we just estimate when it's not pure money."

The article states that the items were stolen between 2002 and 2004, and the theft wasn't even discovered until sometime after Sheiring left the company in February 2005. So, Palladium is begging for money from fans because of a theft that's already been solved and for which restitution has already been paid, mostly on personal items and not company funds. The amount embezzled from the company was listed as $20,000, but restitution paid was $47,000. Kevin Siembieda has a right to be pissed that his personal stuff was stolen, but... how exactly is this responsible for Palladium being on the verge of going out of business?

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

When I was a kid, I loved the TMNT RPG. Then the GM got on this escalation kick, from TMNT to Ninjas and Superspies, then to Rifts. Since the rules were compatible, we would port our characters over. And then see them obliterated, as the power levels for the most part weren't compatible.

By the time we got to Rifts, we were thoroughly bitter. To this day, I still don't like Rifts.

We managed to buck the trend eventually, by bucking the GM and trying out the Robotech RPG. We enjoyed that, though I was sorely tested trying to capture the feel of Robotech.

When I first saw 3e and the d20 system, it actually reminded me more of the Palladium system than of AD&D.

I actually just placed an order for the Palladium Fantasy RPG. I've never played it, but thought it might be worth a chance, considering how long it's been around.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

I'm not a Rifts fan.

I've played it a handful of times, and hating all but 1 of those experiences.

The 1 fun time I had was with a very good GM who basically ignored the rules and just used the setting information.

The other times were with GM's who tried to (and failed) to run the game with the rules as written.

At this point I am no longer even a potential Rifts Customer. I no longer have the time to devote to constant gaming. D20 takes up 100% of my gaming time now. I'd still play a CoC, Mage, or Shadowrun game if I could find it. I skipped Rifts 10 years ago due to rules in bad need of a revision.

Now, I'd skip just due to the fact I don't have enough time to fit in all the games I'd like too, let alone fit in a new one.

This has been my perception of Rifts players in the hobby.

1. 10%: Hate it. Never want to play it again.

2. 25%: Great Setting, Rules in bad need of revision (I fit here, as those Rifts-Defectors I've met; BESM, D20 Mecha, etc)

3. 25%: Great Setting, Rules are clunky, but I work with them.

4. 25%: Fun game. It has its faults. A revision would be nice.

5. 15%: All hail our Lord & Master Sembia! Creator of the most perfect thing in all of existence! (Seems every RPG has around a 15% Die hard base that thinks its the best thing since sliced bread).

Of this Subset of the RPG Market (which isn't the biggest market to begin with), only that last group probably makes a purchase 1-2 times a month.

I know a lot in groups 3 & 4 that maybe only buy 1 product a year (many haven't made a purchase in 10 years). They still play, but don't see a reason to buy anything new as the rules set has been largely stagnant for 15+ years.

Rifts has a limited fanbase. It hasn't been a growing fanbase in quite some time (according to our local game store it's declined quite a lot over the last 15 years, though pretty steady the past 5 or so). Rifts has done quite well with its limited market share, and Kevin has shown no desire to try to grow that Market Share.

This works fine as long a no disaster hits. Palladium has had a disaster hit. They Could Fold (See TSR), Emerge Reborn (See Harley Davidson), or manage to survive & back to business as usual (Drawing a Blank).

If Palladium avoids Bankruptcy, I expect they will go back to Business as Usual.

But, again, I could care less. I haven't been a potential Rifts Customer for over a Decade.

 

[jcfiala]

The problem, as I see it, with converting Palladium system to d20 system is that the two systems are fundimentally different, Palladium is more skill centric while d20 is Attribute centric...now that being said let me explain my thinking:

Palladium uses the attributes to bolster skill scores which most checks are against: you want to break dow a door? well whats you Door Break Skill? Roll the dice

D20 is more about the attributes, skills and feats are bolstered by the attributes and yet we seem to keep going back to what is the attribute to determine a vast number of rolls made

Actually... no. At base, a 10th level character is going to have a +5 or +6 from attribute in their major skills (Say a Rogue and dex, or a Wizard and intellegence), but their skill ranks is going to be +13, and they might have additional bonuses from synergy (which comes from having bought up skills) or from feats that give skill bonuses. So that's a +13 to +18 from skill with a +5 to +6 from attribute - which means that most of your ability there is coming directly from the skill itself. If this person was hit with something that reset their ability bonus to 0 (poison or somesuch), they would still be highly skilled.

 

[Karl Green]

Gods yes, of course there are people who feel frustration with D&D fanatics, GURPS fanatics, Storyteller fanatics, etc. The two most obnoxious groups of gaming fanatics I have met are for D&D and GURPS. The two groups are so alike as to be indestinguishable. One of the GURPS players went so far as to pull a starter box of D&D out of a child's hands at Borders, it made me feel ashamed to be a gamer.

My bad experiences have been with HERO fanatics and M&M 2nd ed fanatics of late... both ALMOST drove me away from those games. How I fixed it was just not to go to their websites and generally ignore... I like both games BUT man some of their fans just soooo turn me off of the respective systems

The Rifts fanatics that I have met on the other hand have been quiet folk, just very insular, having nothing to do with other systems, and not trying to bring people into the One True Game (tm). I may not like the system, but I have no problems with the players. The comparisons to religion can be quite acute in regards to both games and operating systems...

The reason to take the risk is the chance of increasing market share. WotC took a chance with the OGL, and it paid off. Others have not been so fortunate, but sometimes it is worth taking the risk.

The Auld Grump

Hehe but Kevin took a chance with the collectable card market (and failed, even though he at first said they were stupid... until he tried it when the market was taking a BIG hit) and into computer games... sort of with that handheld thing that I can't remember the name of. He takes chances in NON-rpg stuff it appears to me.

NOTE I don't hate Rifts or Palladium... I have a few sourcebooks here and there. I don't think that game is THAT unique but its not bad or anything.

I also did NOT like the idea of them begging for money from their fans... "buy this stick figure art that I did for $50 and big a HERO"????????

There are game companies that I love BUT its a business... if they can't hack it, I'm sorry I don't own them charity to save them.... for whatever reason. Put out game stuff I want to buy and I will support them... I own them nothing else

 

[Voadam]

If only Palladium would add a system for multi-classing and something like feats to vary up the individual classes and I'd leave D&D and be back to playing Palladium in an instant.


(Do you hear me Kevin? It is time for a system overhaul!)

IIRC PFRPG has a multiclass system, similar to 1e/2e D&D human switch class rules.