Pang of nostalgia for "light" stat blocks

[Bullgrit]

I think perhaps that d20 conditions gamers to expect that they won't have to think about stuff like this.

Is it the game system or the adventure writing style?

Adventure writing style (for stat blocks) seems to have come from minimalist (insufficient, I think) to kitchen sink (overload, I think).

Bullgrit

 

[philreed]

Is it the game system or the adventure writing style?

I think it's a little of both but the biggest impact has likely been fan feedback and sales numbers.

 

[Psion]

Why would anyone have a "pang of nostalgia" for such a short (insufficient?) stat block?

Because, well, it's nostalgia. It's the way it used to be.

I am particularly non-grognardly/nostalgic on this issue. I don't pine for the days when all monsters could be boiled down to a bag of hit points, a THAC0, and a damage dice. The 3e MM was what sold me on 3e; I appreciated adding the additional dimensions to the game. I am in no hurry to return to that age.

 

[dcollins]

Why would anyone have a "pang of nostalgia" for such a short (insufficient?) stat block?

The problem is how a very long stat block breaks up the flow of the text, to the point where I forget what was happening in the adventure to that point. It also takes up so much word count that it pushes out other unique non-mechanics material which develops the plot, theme, atmosphere, personalties, etc.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I prefer smaller stat block not for nostalga, but becuase it is easier for me to use in gameplay.

 

[Wil]

[Note: I know absolutely nothing about Traveller, then or now.] Something I'm wondering:

Did those 3 lines tell you absolutely every rule stat about the CT character?

Did the 18 lines for the T20 character?

I mean, comparing the old and new WPM Burket -- 1 line of stats vs. 24 lines of stats. The old stats were not complete even for the AD&D1 rules (no mention of alignment, movement rate, ability scores, armor, damage die, etc.) The new stats tell absolutely every game mechanic stat for the D&D3 rules.

Insufficient vs. overloaded. One looks simpler, the other looks complicated. But is this because of the game system, or because of the writing style guides?

Bullgrit

I don't play D20, but I have to say that I do not stat NPCs completely. Ever. I note any stats that are above or below average, any skill that they would reasonably need for the tasks they are expected to perform in the adventure, any other information (spells or whatnot) and that's it. Any stat not noted is assumed to be average. Any skill, spell or whatnot not noted is assumed to either not be there, or I make a judgement call as to whether or not the NPC would reasonably have it. That's not insufficient data, it's just efficient.

 

[maggot]

The problem with modern stat blocks is that they include a lot of information that will likely never come up. And they take up a lot of room. For monsters in the MM where they will be used again and again, that is fine. For the mayor of a town or a guard, not so much.

Also much of the stat block is calculated material. All you really need is the class(s), level(s), feats, skill ranks, and equipment. You can calc the rest. For a guard, precalcing spot, listen, AC, attack, and damage might be good, but I can do most of this on the fly.

Barek, Fighter 4, S15,D11,C11,I10,W10,Ch10, MW Longsword, MW Breastplate, Alterness, Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec, Improved Init, Iron Will, Spot 3r, Listen 3 r, Intimidate 2 r.
Init +4, AC 15, HP 28, Attack: +8 (d8+4), Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +3, Spot +5, Listen +5

So the first part is all you need, the second useful stuff is calculated for you. I would be happy with the last line, it has all I really need.

I realized that I don't roll hit points, if you do you would need to include it in the base part.

 

[The_Gneech]

I seem to recall there are pages and pages of pre-statted NPCs for just such an emergency in the DMG. But it's probably faster (the thinking goes) to put the info right there where you're likely to have it on-hand during play, than to make you dig out another book (the DMG) and crunch numbers on the fly.

That being said, I am looking forward to my new T&T game. The monsters have FOUR stats now, instead of just one, woohoo!

-The Gneech

 

[Storm Raven]

The problem is how a very long stat block breaks up the flow of the text, to the point where I forget what was happening in the adventure to that point. It also takes up so much word count that it pushes out other unique non-mechanics material which develops the plot, theme, atmosphere, personalties, etc.

I like the complete stat block. It saves me time in-game. I don't have to look up the modifiers and calculate out what a creature's various bonuses are for various things. Sure, I could run with the short 1e style stat block and make it work at the table, but it would mean more time spent remembering what bonuses are applicable and doing the math on the fly. The complete stat block makes my work at the table that much easier.

 

[WayneLigon]

Did those 3 lines tell you absolutely every rule stat about the CT character?

Yes, they did, unless you were playing an alien. You just had stats, skill ranks, and any special status (like 'Traveller's Aid'). If you were playing, say, a Varg, you just had to remember that instead of Social Standing that last number was Charisma.

A typical ClassicTraveller stat block is:

Sir Rusty Collins Human 59A68A-0 Rifle-2 Engineering-2 Vacc-0 Ground Vehicle-0 Cutlass-1 cr6,000 Traveller's

It tells me that Rusty is human, has a strength of 5, dexterity of 9, endurance of 10 (all numbers in Traveller are in hexidecimal up to 16), Intelligence of 6, education of 8, and a social standing of 10 (knight). He has no psionic strength. He adds 2 to his rolls with rifles and any engineering task, has basic competancy in vaccuum suit operation and ground vehicles, and adds 1 to rolls with the cutlass. He has 6,000 credits on him and he's a member of the Traveller's Aid Society.