Paragon ECL

[Tywyll]

Has anyone figured out the ECL of the Paragon template? I know some people have tried to argue (incorrectly) that the ECL is 11 (basing this faulty logic, no doubt, by subtracting the Mind Flayer's ECL from Savage Species from the one presented in Epic HB... however, they fail to take into account that the two systems do not seem to synch up and that the minimum CR adjust for the paragon is +12). So... has anyone figured it out? Has anyone let one in in Epic level play?

Thanks.

 

[kreynolds]

Has anyone figured out the ECL of the Paragon template?

Yup. I pegged it at +15.

Has anyone let one in in Epic level play?

Taking into account that the modifier itself isn't epic, I've actually let in a paragon human into a non-epic game, though admittedly, the ECL turned out even lower than that. The main thing you have to remember about the paragon template is that each of its abilities adds to its ECL, such as the bonus it gets to special attacks. Well, if your base creature doesn't have any special attacks, it won't take an ECL hit for that part of the template.

Anyways, as I said, I've allowed it in a non-epic game. The only problem it posed was that it was like adding an uber-rogue to the game. You've heard to expression that a rogue is basically an egg armed with a warhammer? Well, a paragon human is like an _empty_ egg armed with a nuke.

It actually wasn't that big of a deal though.

 

[Arc]

Hmmm.. I've been kicking around the idea of playing a paragon kobold ever since I got the ELH. Suddenly, it sounds tempting again.

 

[kreynolds]

Perfect example, Arc. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I actually pegged the ECL of the paragon template on a kobold at somewhere between +8 and +10. I'd have to go back and look to be sure.

 

[Xeoble]

With the assumption that the paragon template is +15, i wrote up a level progression, but only like 5 people responded with criticism. I'll send it to you if you're interested.