Parcel Distribution: Missed Parcels & Creative Income

[KanedaX321]

If this question was answered before, I apologize. I don't yet have the ability to search past questions.

It might be more of an opinion than a rule question, but how strict do DMs get when it comes to distributing parcels to their PCs? The Dungeon Master's Guide, of course, says that a party should have x number of parcels per level, but I know sometimes that doesn't always happen.

1) If a group misses a parcel (ie running off to get a milestone before searching a room) do you try to shift it to later in the quest or do you leave it behind as punishment for not searching?

2) If a group tries adding income that's not part of your parcel plan (ie pickpocketing) do you consider that additional income, or do you remove that money from future parcels?

And in addition for number two, what's a good amount to come from a picked pocket? 1 gp? 10? a few silvers?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I know there's probably no right answer, I just want to be fair to my players.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Run for the hills! FedEx and UPS have joined up in a hostile takeover of WotC!

 

[Aulirophile]

If this question was answered before, I apologize. I don't yet have the ability to search past questions.

It might be more of an opinion than a rule question, but how strict do DMs get when it comes to distributing parcels to their PCs? The Dungeon Master's Guide, of course, says that a party should have x number of parcels per level, but I know sometimes that doesn't always happen.

1) If a group misses a parcel (ie running off to get a milestone before searching a room) do you try to shift it to later in the quest or do you leave it behind as punishment for not searching?

2) If a group tries adding income that's not part of your parcel plan (ie pickpocketing) do you consider that additional income, or do you remove that money from future parcels?

And in addition for number two, what's a good amount to come from a picked pocket? 1 gp? 10? a few silvers?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I know there's probably no right answer, I just want to be fair to my players.

1. I shift it to later (though I might change the items in the parcel to less desirable ones).

2. I subtract it from a later parcel.

Actually what I do is every level I make a list of things they are going to find (usually with some different options like I pick 2-3 magic items for the level X one they are going to find). When it feels like one of those items might show up, I stick it in and cross it off the list. Ditto cash, I have the total they find per level and I just keep subtracting however they end up getting money. My games tend to be pretty open-ended in terms of player actions though, I'd drive myself crazy trying to plan for the crazy they come up with.

That of course is when I don't toss the idea entirely and let players buy their magical items like they are making a new character every time they level, only with pure cash equivalent to the DMG rules rather then level+1, level, level-1. Much less fiddly (and players like it).

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If this question was answered before, I apologize. I don't yet have the ability to search past questions.

It might be more of an opinion than a rule question, but how strict do DMs get when it comes to distributing parcels to their PCs? The Dungeon Master's Guide, of course, says that a party should have x number of parcels per level, but I know sometimes that doesn't always happen.

diffrent DMs do it diffrent, infact I have not been in a game yet that runs the same from DM to DM, so let me give a few answers here...

1) If a group misses a parcel (ie running off to get a milestone before searching a room) do you try to shift it to later in the quest or do you leave it behind as punishment for not searching?

I put alot of work into makeing sure things make sense wher ethey are, so well I may not take the thing whole sale, I always make sure to buff other monatary amounts to keep it more or less in line.

I have played under DMs that would literly laough out of game at the end of a session tellign you what you missed and that you would never see it (no not kidding), but some just move it.

I always feel a little jipped when I look back over many levels and it isn't even close to what the book advises... Infact I have 2 games I have spoken up about it... one we went 7 levels only finding 3 items (one that no one in the part could use), and a few hundred gold... the other is my current Dark Sun game where last week I finaly pointed out that my character and another character have gotten no treasure in 3 levels...

2) If a group tries adding income that's not part of your parcel plan (ie pickpocketing) do you consider that additional income, or do you remove that money from future parcels?

for me it depends, if they get alot I count it as part of a parcel...if they get pocket change out of it I don't worry so much. Example: A player (6th level) stole an NPC Magic sword and shield, broke them down to resdium, They got enoungh from the two items to make a 8th level item with a little extra (I think enough to make a 2nd or 3rd level item) left over... so I counted that as there 8th level item treasure parcle... if they had gotten 100gp I wouldn't have taken 100 gp out later though... 2nd example: Same PC at level 12 or so stole a magic scepter off the evil king (really great work on this one) and broke it down to resdium...he got enough to just be shy of makeing what he wanted, the armbands of power (heroic)... Since he still had to kick in his own gold and stuff to make up the diffrence I didn't penelize later treasure at all. *edit: especialy since those arm bands where not for him, but for a fellow player...that made me more generus with them*

And in addition for number two, what's a good amount to come from a picked pocket? 1 gp? 10? a few silvers?

I normaly think about where it is... kings court could give 2 or 3 d6 gold or even platnum...but if you get cought the consqnces are dire...and they are hard checks for your level... If in a market place, easy or mod diff for your level (or somewhere inbetween) and 2-3d6 silver...

Picking the pocket of a wall street gut gets you alot, picking a midd class guy gets you some... pick the wrong pocket and you may get lint...

On the other hand I had a GM I wanted to slug once at the begining of 4e... a theif in sharn (not my character) made 3 really high thevery checks (i think 2 where nat 20's and one int he high teens, maybe a 19 and a 20...anyway) I know he hit 30+ at least on one check, and high 20's for the other two...so the DM gave him gems worth 5,000gp, 2,000gp in resdium, and a few dozen platnum... that he then went and kept for himself... now that may not sound so bad, but it was right after our first adventure, and we found only 2 items and about 200gp to split among the 5 of us ph, and one of those 2 items the theif had, a Vicious +2 Dagger. The other item our fighter got... so my warlord was yet to have an item, and only had about 50gp to his name... and the thief goes shopping for cool toys... whent he thief is shopping for level 9 or ten items...

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I know there's probably no right answer, I just want to be fair to my players.

you got the right answer already...

I just want to be fair to my players

just keep that thought in mind and you should fair welll

 

[Destil]

1) If a group misses a parcel (ie running off to get a milestone before searching a room) do you try to shift it to later in the quest or do you leave it behind as punishment for not searching?

2) If a group tries adding income that's not part of your parcel plan (ie pickpocketing) do you consider that additional income, or do you remove that money from future parcels?

The 'baseline' parcel I generally shift around so that the PCs find all of them, and if they miss one or two it's usually gold/potions.

However, I also have 2-5 sets of 'optional' treasure ready to go at any given time. These serve as rewards for clever play, going out of their way to search areas et cetera. It's usually not standard +ed items (none of the big three), I usually make sure that those are part of the core list.

Almost all other 'income' I generally try and be pretty fluid with, generally gold, gems and ritual components.

And in addition for number two, what's a good amount to come from a picked pocket? 1 gp? 10? a few silvers?

Depends entirely on who's pocket they're picking, of course! 1d4 gold/silver/copper for wealthy/average/poor city areas would be my baseline with bigger dice for higher success. Streetwise could also come into play picking good marks and whatnot.

 

[frankthedm]

leave it behind as punishment for not searching?

How is a logical outcome "punishment"?

2) If a group tries adding income that's not part of your parcel plan (ie pickpocketing) do you consider that additional income, or do you remove that money from future parcels?

Unfortunately since gold pieces/treasure are point buy power system in post 2000 D&D, keeping a party from being too rich is important for campaign balance since it can be a snowball of too much XP for not enough challenge endured. PCs being to poor is also a problem, but that is more easily correctable.

And in addition for number two, what's a good amount to come from a picked pocket? 1 gp? 10? a few silvers?

Same amounts PCs tend to lose to pick pockets. If players keep their stuff elaborately secreted upon them selves, assume the majority of the settings inhabitants do the same as well.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't really worry too much about parcels. The PCs have the requisite 'big 3' items at roughly the correct enhancement. Beyond that things are pretty much flexible. If I see that the characters are getting behind, then I hand out parcels as needed with some sort of story justification. I really couldn't tell you what makes up for what in terms of things that may have been missed, etc. I have a spreadsheet that totals treasure values, so I can see roughly how the total wealth over the whole campaign has gone vs what is expected by the parcel system and keep things in the right ballpark.

As far as rewards that a PC actively earns on their own by say picking pockets or whatever, I'd just let them keep it in general. If however some kind of thievery is going to be really rewarding then it is also going to be difficult enough to make into an encounter. You want to steal a few silvers or a couple gp from random people there's no point in even tracking it really. If the character is going to stalk a rich merchant and steal his money pouch out from under the eyes of his guards? That's going to be a skill challenge and the treasure is going to be a parcel or part of a parcel.

 

[Piratecat]

Welcome!

I mess around with parcel distribution all the time. I sometimes "borrow" from the next level to give out a good item, I convert magic items to cash to give out lots of gold at once, I "trade down" item levels and give the difference in cash, and I give parcels in untraditonal forms. No major problems yet. The PCs in my last game accidentally destroyed about 3000 GP of treasure I expected them to take; I'll make it up to them at some point in the next level.

More embarrassingly, last game I also destroyed two of their four ritual books because I didn't think through to the logical conclusion of a bad guy's attempt to destroy paper evidence. I'll have to find a way to replace those without charging the characters. It was my fault as DM, not theirs, and they shouldn't be punished for that long-term.

 

[hayek]

There's definitely no right answer... but your opinion depends a lot on whether you're a simulationist (keeping the behind-the-scenes world logical and consistent is more important than telling an engaging story) or narrativist (story trumps world). A simulationist will want to 'punish' the party for missing out on treasure that was there to be had in the world. It was there, they didn't find it, too bad. That's part of the game. Consequently, they'll want to reward a pickpocket with extra treasure - that loot wasn't planned for the party, so it's 'extra'.

A narrativist will change things around if need be, as the behind-the-scenes world is fluid and can be modified to keep things moving. The party didn't search the room to find the secret compartment that held the vampire's stash? Put a chest in the next room that has the loot the party is supposed to receive.

Most importantly, don't just decide what kind of game you like, find out what kind of game your players want to play. A group of players looking for a simulationist game will be bored with a dm who keeps clearly contriving events to make a certain story. And a bunch of narrativist players with a simulationist dm will be very frustrated that things aren't more structured and they are punished by the dm's 'gotcha' moments.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

There's definitely no right answer... but your opinion depends a lot on whether you're a simulationist (keeping the behind-the-scenes world logical and consistent is more important than telling an engaging story) or narrativist (story trumps world). A simulationist will want to 'punish' the party for missing out on treasure that was there to be had in the world. It was there, they didn't find it, too bad. That's part of the game. Consequently, they'll want to reward a pickpocket with extra treasure - that loot wasn't planned for the party, so it's 'extra'.

A narrativist will change things around if need be, as the behind-the-scenes world is fluid and can be modified to keep things moving. The party didn't search the room to find the secret compartment that held the vampire's stash? Put a chest in the next room that has the loot the party is supposed to receive.

Most importantly, don't just decide what kind of game you like, find out what kind of game your players want to play. A group of players looking for a simulationist game will be bored with a dm who keeps clearly contriving events to make a certain story. And a bunch of narrativist players with a simulationist dm will be very frustrated that things aren't more structured and they are punished by the dm's 'gotcha' moments.

I look at it this way though. In the grand scheme of things all DMs are doing something like what you call the 'narrativist' approach. In other words you look at the PCs and what they have and you look at the adventure you want to run, and you figure out how to make sure the PCs have the resources they require to have fun in that adventure. Likewise if the PCs somehow come up with some ridiculous amount of treasure somehow the DM cuts back or even figures out a way to make them dispose of it. So I think it is basically a question of how it seems to the players. The thing to keep in mind is everything in DM-land is smoke and mirrors. Until it shows up in play nothing is cast in stone and the players rarely, if ever, really get much of a glimpse of how the DM came up with any given story element.