Parents Neglect - D&D named.....

[Ferret]

I wouldn't be surprised. I bet it also smooths over other things like background or parents etc. Which are important factors.

 

[Elf Witch]

Only people with a psychological predisposition toward addiction, and insufficient self-control, are at any potential risk of addiction to video/computer games.

But that is true of most addictions. A lot of people drink and don't become alcoholics.

I can see how video games can become addicting. Most addicts are looking for something to numb their pain to take them away. Video games by their nature can really fill this bill. You focus on the game and gaining levels it always there waiting for you. The more you focus on the game the less you focus on the pain.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Personally, where I think it crosses the line is when people hold the game responsible for the addiction.

Certain qualities of games (like certain qualities of alcohol) are appealing to addicts. But it's not the game's fault (or the acohol's fault) that people get addicted.

I mean, calling videogames addictive kind of cheapens the *true* addictive nature of things like nicotene, heroin, and, yeah, even alcohol. Videogames aren't in the same league; many people can't control these addictions without immense self-control. Any "addiction" anyone has to videogames doesn't require immense self-control. It just requires *some*. It's not like it does something to your bloodstream. And if the pleasure-release you get is so potent, you really need to find other things that can dilute it.

 

[Elf Witch]

Personally, where I think it crosses the line is when people hold the game responsible for the addiction.

Certain qualities of games (like certain qualities of alcohol) are appealing to addicts. But it's not the game's fault (or the acohol's fault) that people get addicted.

I mean, calling videogames addictive kind of cheapens the *true* addictive nature of things like nicotene, heroin, and, yeah, even alcohol. Videogames aren't in the same league; many people can't control these addictions without immense self-control. Any "addiction" anyone has to videogames doesn't require immense self-control. It just requires *some*. It's not like it does something to your bloodstream. And if the pleasure-release you get is so potent, you really need to find other things that can dilute it.

While it is true that certain addictions like alcohol, cocaine, tobacco have a chemical element to the addication which makes it harder to quit there are other kinds of addication say gambling there is no chemical element there but gambling addiction is recognized as a true addiction.

I don't think it cheapens the chemical addictions at all it is just different. And can be just as hard for some people to kick.

People who are addicts are not just looking for something pleasurable. Sometimes they are not looking for pleasure at all they are looking for an escape from their personal demons their pain ,its not that they don't have self control its that they have other major issues in their life that they need help dealing with. They are using sex, food, gambling ,booze , shopping and yes even something like video games so they don't have to face or deal with their issues.

Its not the games fault I don't think anyone is saying that games have the same power to addict as say herion. I can gurantee if you try herion enough anyone no matter what their self control is is going to get physically addict. It is not the same thing with games there is no chemical element going on.

I can see the danger that online games and other video games can hold for a person who has the addictive personality who is looking for something so they don't have to feel. I don't think they should be banned and I don't think that they are a danger to everyone and I do believe that someone looking for something to take the pain away would find something else if the games were not around.

I think the possibilty of video game addiction is one that mental health providers need to take seriously.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I don't think it cheapens the chemical addictions at all it is just different. And can be just as hard for some people to kick.

I respectfully disagree about the cheapens. I think it can be just has hard for some people to kick, but it seems to me that kicking the gambling habit is more a matter of pyschological mindset. You don't get the shakes and cold sweats and the miserable physical pain of, say, kicking heroin. You might be sad and snippy, but it strikes me as pretty crazy to call both of these things the same thing.

Sometimes they are not looking for pleasure at all they are looking for an escape from their personal demons their pain ,its not that they don't have self control its that they have other major issues in their life that they need help dealing with. They are using sex, food, gambling ,booze , shopping and yes even something like video games so they don't have to face or deal with their issues.

100% true! The need is entirely mental. That's part of why it can be displaced on so many different things (anything that can bring you fun can be this kind of "addiction"), and why kicking it requires changing your thoughts, rather than changing both your thoughts and enduring some of the horrors of detoxing your physical body as well.

These people who loose themselves in DDO are still entirely in control of their own actions, and entirely responsible for their own behavior. DDO didn't make them think or do anything. Being under the influence of DDO isn't a mitigating factor like, say, being under the influence of alcohol is. But calling both videogames and alcohol "addictive" conflates them.

Really, all that videogame addicts may need to do is take control and responsibility. I shouldn't suggest this is easy, by any means, but I can't imagine it's the kind of torment that coming down off of hard, addictive substances is. Which is why it seems very incongruous of me to call them both the same thing.

Basically, I'm echoing the sentiment that the problem with videogame addicts isn't with the videogame, it's with the addict. Whereas the problem with, say, heroin addicts may be partially with the addict, but it's definately with the heroin, too.

Y'know, making a distinction between something that's highly addictive, and someone who can narrow their focus to exclude everything but their sad, obsessive little joy.

 

[Mallus]

It doesn't have the same potential as LSD or drugs like that...

Actually, LSD (and other hallucinogens similar to LSD) aren't physical addictive (though they're dangerous in other ways). Unlike say, nicotine, cocaine, or opiates, which are physically addictive. While some experts think it's possible to become psychologically addicted to hallucinogens, the whole issue of psychological addiction is a big slippery slope; where you might as well be talking about a someone's psychological addiction to gardening, video games, or collecting Sanrio collectibles.

As for the OP... these people are mentally ill. Whether they deserve jail time is up to a jury of their peers --God help us all if they actually find them. The whole D&D/video game angle is just hype, a salacious way to pitch/market/present the story.

 

[Elf Witch]

I respectfully disagree about the cheapens. I think it can be just has hard for some people to kick, but it seems to me that kicking the gambling habit is more a matter of pyschological mindset. You don't get the shakes and cold sweats and the miserable physical pain of, say, kicking heroin. You might be sad and snippy, but it strikes me as pretty crazy to call both of these things the same thing.



100% true! The need is entirely mental. That's part of why it can be displaced on so many different things (anything that can bring you fun can be this kind of "addiction"), and why kicking it requires changing your thoughts, rather than changing both your thoughts and enduring some of the horrors of detoxing your physical body as well.

These people who loose themselves in DDO are still entirely in control of their own actions, and entirely responsible for their own behavior. DDO didn't make them think or do anything. Being under the influence of DDO isn't a mitigating factor like, say, being under the influence of alcohol is. But calling both videogames and alcohol "addictive" conflates them.

Really, all that videogame addicts may need to do is take control and responsibility. I shouldn't suggest this is easy, by any means, but I can't imagine it's the kind of torment that coming down off of hard, addictive substances is. Which is why it seems very incongruous of me to call them both the same thing.

Basically, I'm echoing the sentiment that the problem with videogame addicts isn't with the videogame, it's with the addict. Whereas the problem with, say, heroin addicts may be partially with the addict, but it's definately with the heroin, too.

Y'know, making a distinction between something that's highly addictive, and someone who can narrow their focus to exclude everything but their sad, obsessive little joy.

People coming off non chemical addictions can have some pretty nasty withdrawal symptoms. They suffer severe anixety the kind that can cause hypervenlation and can lead to such a bad panic attack they nned to be sedated. They become so depressed that they can become a danger to themselves as they become suicidal. I do voulnterr work at a mental health organization one of the things I do is man the help lines and over the years I have talked to different kinds of addicts and one thing they all have in common is deep pain and shame. It is far worse than just being sad and snippy.

I had one client whose addiction to gambling was ruining her life. She was losing her job, custody of her kids and was on the edge of suicide. She had been caught stealing from her place of employment to feed her gambling habit. She eventually came in for help.

I have sat in on the addiction group so that I can get a better idea of how to help when someone calls and I can tell from listening to these addicts storie's regardless of their chosen addiction the pain and anguish they go through is the same regardless of what kind of addiction they have.

Sure detoxing from herion or cocaine is physically hard you can die from it. It should be done in a hospital setting where you can be medicated for the worst of it.

But I can tell you this none of the counselors play the which is worse game because they have all seen just how bad it is for some one who is addicted regardless of what they are addicted to. We had a clint several months ago end her life over her shopping addicition. Having your life destroyed because of drugs or say gambling ends in the same result having a destroyed life.

As for being in control of their actions when drug addicts first chose to use they are in control of their actions they choose to become addicts. And if you endanger your children while under the influence say like the this couple did you will be facing jail time. Because being an addicted does not migate any of your responsibility to your children.

While detoxing your body is hard and dangerous changing your thoughts is hard as well it is not as easy as you seem to be implying. People with chemical addictions get the double whammy of having to deal with physical as well as emotional addiction. No one denies that at first they have the harded road but once they are detoxed they are in the same boat as any other addict dealing with the issues that led them to addiction in the first place.

You don't seem to have an idea what it is like for the addict. The gambler who has ruined his family finances and hates himself feels deep shame and tries to stop but then the anxiety starts soon he is plagued with non stop thoughts of going to the track amd he breaks down and goes and hates himself more and they cycle just gets worse. And he dosen't have the excuse of a chemical addiction he knows this and he knows that he should have more self control which makes him hate himself more. He starts not sleeping he can't concentrate on his work he becomes depressed. He is plagued with thoughts of suicide I mean after all look at what a horrible person he has become. When you hear the stories of how these people feel about themselves the depth of their pain you realize that they are suffering in a different way they someone going through detox but they are suffering.

In the addiction group you don't hear a herion addict going on to say a sex addict how much worse their addiction was they understand just what the sex addict is going through and how hard it is to stop.

And yes part of the addiction of a herion addict is the drug but they will tell you if it was not herion it would have been something else.

 

[Jack99]

There are two types of addiction. Physical and Social. Some dependants (like cigarettes) are comprised of both. The physical addiction is by far the easiest to kick. For cigarettes it lasts around 3 days, whereas the social addiction lasts for the rest of your life (still a much argued point, some say only a few years).

Videogaming is purely a social addiction. Thats why i dont think there is any excuse for the mother of these children. I can understand why she might have issues stopping, but playing to the point where her flesh and blood are starving?

 

[Stalker0]

I consider video game addiction to be a real one, and in many ways far more serious in our modern day society than many other recognized forms of addiction.

There are several reasons:

1) Legal. You can play as much as you want, and its perfectly legal. Illegal addictions tend to be a bit harder to get started.

2) Socially accepted. Its becoming more and more accepted that people can play rpgs and video games online. I mean WOW has millions of players. When schools tell children most people don't do drugs, that's true. But when it comes to video games, that's becoming less and less true.

3) So very easy. Let's be honest, there's a certain amount of difficulty in being a crack addict. Money is the first one, always got to have the money. Then you usually have to deal with a dealer who may not be so trustworthy. And of course the illegality. People are forced to continuously do things they don't want to do, and when they hit "rock bottom" they start to recognize that they would rather have a life without the drug then continue to do what they do on the drug.

But with video games, you have nice friendly people giving you more. All you need is a little electricity. You can play and play and play far more than the longest trip on heroine. And is so easy, you can park your butt in a chair and do nothing but play. People don't hit rock bottom, they just continue to tread water.

I don't think any of this excuses the horror of this report, but I think its an indicator of things to come. Video Games can be habit forming and they can be addictive. Just like there are people that can never take a drink again, there are people who can never play a video game lest they become addicted. And as these games become more and more common, I fear we will see many more news reports like this one.

 

[Arkhandus]

But that is true of most addictions. A lot of people drink and don't become alcoholics.

I can see how video games can become addicting. Most addicts are looking for something to numb their pain to take them away. Video games by their nature can really fill this bill. You focus on the game and gaining levels it always there waiting for you. The more you focus on the game the less you focus on the pain.

But then by your arguments, it seems that we should ban everything that is potentially addictive. Video games are but one thing that people with addictive tendencies could focus on. We'd have to ban everything fun, everything interesting, everything exciting, everything intriguing, everything gossip-worthy, everything tasty, everything and anything that elicits an emotional or biological response.

We'd have to force everyone to sit still, staring at blank walls, doing nothing. Heck, some people may even get addicted to eating or drinking, even if it's just water or something. So I guess everyone would have to be fed horrible-tasting food and water by robotic servants. And probably tied down so there wouldn't be any risk of them developing into masochists, since then they'd get addicted to pain and it's all too easy to hurt oneself.

So I guess really the answer would be The Matrix, but without the virtual world to keep people happy; instead it'd just be everyone kept sedated, not allowed to experience anything.

Or something.....


Point being, you can't just say that anything potentially addictive should be restricted or banned, you have to limit such actions to stuff that is actually harmful and/or terribly bad-habit-forming by itself. Alcohol is one such thing that can cause such habits, because it has a direct effect on our body chemistry and behavior.

Video games, on the other hand, only do so for people who are already very addiction-prone themselves, just the same as sports or other hobbies could become the focus of addictions by such people. Video games are no more accessible than sports or the majority of significant hobbies or games. The only advantage they have over those is that they're more easily enjoyed by an individual, rather than generally requiring a group of people to participate. But there are still other hobbies that share that capacity (just not as popular, because video games are a broad media that many kinds of people can have fun with).

If video games were to be restricted or banned, I'd demand that sports also suffer the same stupid and undeserved fate; sports are a much more significant source of unhealthy or abnormal obsession than video games (I'm sure there are a few billion people that would want to pummel or kill me, if I somehow prevented them from watching or participating in sports). :\


When it comes down to it, the problem is with the people like those in the article, who have negligent and addictive tendencies themselves, and probably a desire for escapism. Sure, if we could get people to treat each other more nicely and put less pressure on one another, we'd all be living happier lives and there'd be fewer people looking for escapism. That would at least eliminate one small part of the problem.

And anyway, there are a lot of folks who play RPGs, which have an element of escapism to them, just as art and storytelling do to some extent. Yet I'm pretty sure most of us gamers are not even half as mentally unhinged as that couple in the article, even though we're technically participating in some escapism and gaming ourselves.

It's more a matter of people needing to help each other out, than any obtuse notion of 'video games = t3h 3v1L'.