PARRY and RIPOSTE - are they balanced feats?

[Geoff Watson]

I think the feats are overpowered. Someone with Parry will easily beat an equivalent level fighter who doesn't; getting extra attacks as well (from Riposte) is totally silly.

I suggest you use Expertise or Fighting Defensively for 'Parrying'.

Geoff.

 

[Apok]

I thought you could choose after you knew whether he hit or not with Dragon 301s parry feat...

Rav

Yes, you are indeed correct sir!

Which is why I added the disclaimer at the top of my post that I didn't have access to my mags at the time.

After re-checking, you do indeed choose to parry after the attack has been declared successfull but before damage is rolled.

And, after re-reading the section, there's a LOT that I left out! Wow. Okay, lemme try and break this down again.

Parry
Prerequisites (if using it as a feat) are Dex 13+, Int 13+ and Expertise.
After any melee attack roll to hit your character has been made, but before damage has been assigned, you may attempt to parry an attack against a weapon up to two size categories larget than the one you wield. You cannot parry an attack when unarmed, when wearing medium or heavy armor, or when you are denied your Dex bonus to AC. Attempting a parry uses up an attack of opportunity for that round. You may only make one parry attempt in a round.
To parry, make an opposed attack roll. If you suceed in beating your opponents attack roll, the attack is paried and no damage is dealt. When weilding a light weapon, you gain a +4 bonus to your parry roll. Weather you succeed or fail, your opponent gets an immediate free attempt to Disarm you which doesn't provoke an AoO nor does it give you the chance to make a Disarm attempt in return if he fails.

Whew. Okay, that's the feat in a nutshell. Obviously, there are a lot of restrictions on how it can be used, but you can eliminate most if not all of 'em by picking up the other feats. Such feats include Armored Fencer (Heavy), Armored Fencer (Medium), Crushing Defence, Expert Parry, Guarded Defense, Improved Parry, Incredible Parry, Protective Parry and Steel Skin.

 

[Apok]

Thanks Apok.

I will have to look into this for my next campaign: Thief I like the concept a lot better than the duelist flat bonus. Do you find that this takes more time or slows the game?

No problem.

Well, it's one of those things that could potentially add an additional roll to combat. Given how the system is set up, it's fairly feat-intensive to get good at parrying so I'd only expect to see it on those rare occasions when someone wants to try and deflect that killing blow or if someone wants to build a Master Fencer.

 

[Stalker0]

Yes, you are indeed correct sir!

Which is why I added the disclaimer at the top of my post that I didn't have access to my mags at the time.

After re-checking, you do indeed choose to parry after the attack has been declared successfull but before damage is rolled.

And, after re-reading the section, there's a LOT that I left out! Wow. Okay, lemme try and break this down again.

Phew, based on the first version you posted I was thinking "holy crap, that's a god tactic" I mean hell for one AOO being able to block one attack is awesome. But they way its actually done here seems much more balanced.

 

[Apok]

I think the feats are overpowered. Someone with Parry will easily beat an equivalent level fighter who doesn't; getting extra attacks as well (from Riposte) is totally silly.

I suggest you use Expertise or Fighting Defensively for 'Parrying'.

Geoff.

Are you referring to the Swashbuckling Adventure feats or the ones from Dragon 301? If the latter, then I couldn't disagree more. The way the system is set up, Parrying works well as a last-ditch defense against a potentially lethal blow unless you spend the feats to make it a major factor in combat.

This system is almost impossible to abuse, because it is so feat intensive. The only class that could even consider maxing out on the parry chain would be a Fighter, unless another class wants to spend half or more of their feats on parrying. I was shocked at how balanced the rules seem, since most other active parry systems out there for 3e are either too powerful or too clunky. This one is just right.

I much prefer the concept of an active parry to a passive one, and Expertise and Fighting Defensively just don't do it for me.

 

[Apok]

Phew, based on the first version you posted I was thinking "holy crap, that's a god tactic" I mean hell for one AOO being able to block one attack is awesome. But they way its actually done here seems much more balanced.

Well, you can get it to that level (one AoO to parry) but it's gonna cost you Big Time in feats.

 

[Seule]

The feats and abilities in Swashbuckling Adventures assume a specific environment: Very few magic items, and very little armour for most characters. In an environment like that, fighter types have to rely on other things for defense rather than straight AC, and Parry becomes very important. In a standard D&D game, giving the Dwarven defender tank with 40+ AC the chance to parry as well may be very unbalancing, but in context with SA, it all works out.
Anything from any book that assumes a different environment than D&D has to be reexamined when you decide to import it.

--Seule

 

[Silver Griffon]

The feats and abilities in Swashbuckling Adventures assume a specific environment: Very few magic items, and very little armour for most characters. In an environment like that, fighter types have to rely on other things for defense rather than straight AC, and Parry becomes very important. In a standard D&D game, giving the Dwarven defender tank with 40+ AC the chance to parry as well may be very unbalancing, but in context with SA, it all works out.
Anything from any book that assumes a different environment than D&D has to be reexamined when you decide to import it.

--Seule

Absolutely. I just played a game where the DM allowed one of the players to use these feats and several others from Swashbuckling Adventures in a standard D&D environment. It got real ugly real fast. He rarely failed a parry roll and took no damage or very little damage in 3 out of 4 fights. (He also had other defensive feats designed for the low-magic sba world.) And with riposte, he got an extra free attack every round. Very nasty. IIRC his character was a 5/5 fighter/rogue who dealt, on average, more than twice the damage per round than my straight 8/2 fighter/rogue with spiked chain could dish out. And that character had weapon specialization with his +2 sonic spiked chain. And gauntlets that brought him up to an 18 Strength! It was particularly nasty since it was a high-magic campaign that he was bringing these abilities into. (As evidenced by the aforementioned spiky goodness.) He was using a comparable magic rapier.

 

[Madriver]

More Dragon Parry Feats

Dragon also had more feats to supplement the basic parry feat, some are listed below:

Parry [General]
Prerequisiteex 13+, Int 13+, Expertise.
Benefit:You may make one attempt per round to parry a landed blow by rolling an opposed attack roll at your highest BAB. An attempted parry that fails causes an immediate disarm attempt against you.

Improved Parry [General]
Prerequisiteex 13+, Int 13+, Combat Reflexes, Expertise, Parry.
Benefit:You may make multiple parry attempts, up to your available attack of opportunities, against different foes, but never more than one per foe.

Guarded Defense [General]
Prerequisite:Base attack bonus +4 or higher, Dex 13+, Int 13+, Expertise, Improved Disarm, Parry, .
Benefit:You do not suffer a disarm attempt when you parry.

Expert Parry [General]
Prerequisiteex 13+, Int 13+, Combat Reflexes, Expertise, Improved Parry, Parry.
Benefit:You may make multiple parry attempts against different or the same enemy.

Protective Parry [General]
Prerequisiteex 13+, Int 13+, Expertise, Parry.
Benefit:You may attempt to parry a blow that will hit an ally adjacent to you.

Armored Fencer [Heavy] [General]
Prerequisite:Armor Proficiency (light), Armor Proficiency (medium), Armor Proficiency (medium], Armored Fencer [medium], Dex 13+, Int 13+, Expertise, Parry.
Benefit:You may parry in heavy armor.

Armored Fencer [Medium] [General]
Prerequisite:Armor Proficiency (light), Armor Proficiency (medium), Armor Proficiency (medium], Dex 13+, Int 13+, Expertise, Parry.
Benefit:You may parry in medium armor.