Partial Saves for Poison...

[the Jester]

Well, I like the idea of giving some poisons variant rules, much like diseases have. There might be one that required a save vs. poison damage thrice rather than twice, or one that kept doing damage until cured. I have some magical poisons imc that resist magical neutralization, too.

I really like some of the ideas being tossed around in this thread.

 

[Pbartender]

To deal with the high-level-immunity issue, why not bump all Poison save DCs by +5?

That's not a half bad idea. It certainly has the benefit of being easy to implement.

P.S. Arsenic is 1 plus 1d8.

I realize that now... stupid typo.

You could just make it do damage.

Hit point damage you mean? Good heavens, if anything, that'd likely make the players less fearful of it.

Besides, some poisons already do.

{AND OTHER STUFF} ... Realistic disease and poison is just another sort of maiming.

Hold on... I'm not aiming for realistic. I'm not aiming for any sort of permanent effect. I'm not even necessarily aiming for deadlier (though that might be a secondary effect).

I'm aiming for "more dangerous", and an elimination of poison immunity through good saves. I want characters who make their poison saving throws to still feel the poison, if even only in a mildly debilitating fashion.

I want the same sort of feel -- nervous tension -- as in the action movies, when the hero gets poisoned... Did he drink enough to die? How long does have to get an antedote? Is he already starting to feel the effects?

Have you seen Sean Reynolds variant?

Web page Here

His continuing damage variant kinda levels out the poison from being an insta-kill while still leaving room for fear and danger from its effects.

I don't know... It seems to me that recovering the ability damage by one point per day is enough of a lingering effect already.

Well, I like the idea of giving some poisons variant rules, much like diseases have. There might be one that required a save vs. poison damage thrice rather than twice, or one that kept doing damage until cured. I have some magical poisons imc that resist magical neutralization, too.

I really like some of the ideas being tossed around in this thread.

I think I'm coming to that same realization. For example:

CURARE (Injury only)
Curare is a strong muscle relaxant often used by natives of tropical jungles.

Primary effect (Immediate onset): No save; fatigued for 4d4x10 minutes.
Secondary effect (1d4 round onset): Fortitude save (DC 15) or paralyzed for duration of Initial effects.
Secondary effect (20 minute onset): Fortitude save (DC 10) or death.
Special: Each additional dose of curare increases the DCs of all secondary effects by +2.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

It is kind of silly a dwarf could fall into a pit of cobras and emerge unpoisoned, despite being bitten dozens of times. (Mathematically, he might roll a 1 some time, but odds are just as good that he wont)

You could just make poison allow a fortitude save for half effect (and round down) for both saves. Ex: If you save against Black Lotus Extract, the most con you will lose is 9 if you make the save. (and the least is 1)

Haveing poisons have "stages", while somewhat more realistic, is a bit tedious in game. Your "curare" example has a 600 round onset for its worst effect. One of two things is going to happen in 600 rounds: Either they will cure it with Neutralize Poison and such; or They don't have the cure, and have to roleplay out 20 minutes of basically nothing. (Because not giving them those 20 minutes to try something would be unfair)

 

[Vrecknidj]

Anyone interested in putting together an alternate poisons rule article for [url="wizo.wizards.com/ka/]Knowledge Arcana[/url]?

I'm open to the suggestions here.

Dave

 

[Pbartender]

You could just make poison allow a fortitude save for half effect (and round down) for both saves. Ex: If you save against Black Lotus Extract, the most con you will lose is 9 if you make the save. (and the least is 1)

Yeah, I'm thinking about that, too...

Haveing poisons have "stages", while somewhat more realistic, is a bit tedious in game. Your "curare" example has a 600 round onset for its worst effect. One of two things is going to happen in 600 rounds: Either they will cure it with Neutralize Poison and such; or They don't have the cure, and have to roleplay out 20 minutes of basically nothing. (Because not giving them those 20 minutes to try something would be unfair)

You realize that the current poison rules have two "stages", one occurring one minutes after the other.

I don't see how a few more stages with longer onset times would be that much more tedious... In our group, at least, those delays don't take up much game time:

Player: "I was poisoned! Does anyone have Neutralize Poison prepared?"
Others: "Nope, but I do have a lesser Restoration in case you fail the save."
Player: "Anybody have any potions or antedotes?"
Others: "We're all out... I've got the Heal skill, he can make a check just in case."
Me: "Alright in one minute, I'll need a Heal check and a Fortitude save. Does anybody want to do anything else in the meantime?"
Others: "Sure, I'll search the bodies for treasure... Yup, I'll keep an eye out for patrols... I'll use a few Cure spells to make sure everyone's back at full hit points."

I can't see it taking up much more time than is already spent on it... And besides, it might make for a harrowing chase as the PCs have to rush the paralyzed body of their comrade back to the village in less than 20 minutes, so the local witch doctor can administer an antedote.