Participation problem

[diaglo]

...except one person who really only has that type of enthusiasm for LG.

i have that kind of enthusiasm for all alignments.

CN mostly tho.

 

[Samothdm]

I think that Teflon Billy has it right - people are going to participate to the level that they want and no further. No point in getting upset with them for not participating. I've driven myself crazy getting frustrated over players who show no enthusiasm or drive to do more than just show up and roll dice, and in the end, it's a game and not worth getting all upset over it.

I'm in three different groups now (one as DM) and this is the case throughout all three.

In the first game (I'm a player), it's based on a Middle-Earth model, but in the Far East 1000 years after the War of the Ring. One of the players is a realTolkien fan, to the point that he basically rewrote a bunch of his character background info after he found out we were in Middle Earth (it wasn't apparent from the beginning, which was the DM's intention). Over time, that particular game has become known as "Nick's game". All of the rest of us players always say that Nick is pretty much playing his own, separate game with the DM and the rest of us are just along for the ride. I'm into the game, but I'm not a Tolkien scholar and I also joined the game in the middle, so I don't have the background knowledge to get much more involved in the story.

In the game I DM, I really only have two (kind of more like 1 1/2) players who are interested in the storylines and themes and have bothered to make characters that are unique to the settings. As a result, the game has basically evolved to service their two characters. Everyone else just sort of shows up. They don'd read the campaign logs or try to look for clues posted on our game website, and don't participate in our game group forums, so I figure that there's no point pushing them to do so.

In the third group, the DM started off from the bat by saying that he'd give everyone an "action point" (Dawnforge Campaign) after every session if we all write in-character journals of how our characters perceived that game's events. I think it's worked pretty well - lots more roleplaying in this game, and because it's a brand new campaign world, no one has an edge on anyone else in terms of player knowledge.

 

[Crothian]

THe reason I bring it up it is a problem. THe other two have referred to the game as the Cyree show (Cyree being her character). THey feel they have not been involved in the desciosns as much as her.

One problem is time. One guy has 4 kids, full time job, full time student, wife, and runs a game as well as plays in mine. Another owns his own business and that takes a lot of time. I will be talking to them, but its hard to all get together outside of game because of the time issues. And the next game session may be put on hold because of conflicts. So, until we can all get together and talk it out I was seeing if there was any ideas here, and there have been, on some solutions I can offer. I hate having to talk about a problem without at least offering a solution.

 

[Chimera]

Another vote for "People will participate as much as they want to" and that you shouldn't try to correct that as long as the other players are not complaining about being overshadowed.

In the past, playing with friends, I've always been the group leader, the one taking the most interest in the setting and plots. However, playing with five different groups over the last three years, I've deliberately taken a back seat and played quieter PCs until I got a feel for the group.

 

[Crothian]

Another vote for "People will participate as much as they want to" and that you shouldn't try to correct that as long as the other players are not complaining about being overshadowed.

Totally agree, except they are complaining. They are grumpling and rightfully so that they are just followers of the one character. I want to fix that, and the best way I know of to do that is to try to get them more involved. But they have never really shown interest in become ing more involved.

 

[Samothdm]

THe reason I bring it up it is a problem. THe other two have referred to the game as the Cyree show (Cyree being her character). THey feel they have not been involved in the desciosns as much as her.

One problem is time. One guy has 4 kids, full time job, full time student, wife, and runs a game as well as plays in mine. Another owns his own business and that takes a lot of time. I will be talking to them, but its hard to all get together outside of game because of the time issues. And the next game session may be put on hold because of conflicts. So, until we can all get together and talk it out I was seeing if there was any ideas here, and there have been, on some solutions I can offer. I hate having to talk about a problem without at least offering a solution.

Got it - sorry, I didn't realize that the other players were complaining. That seems a little odd to me, though... they're complaining that the player who is putting in more time and effort is getting more attention than they are. The solution seems obvious - they should get more involved. I understand the time issue - our group consists of mostly married professionals, some of whom have kids, and very little free time.

I don't know how often you game, but a couple of ideas:
* Prior to the next session, ask each player to e-mail a one sentence (or at most, one paragraph) statement about their characters' goals and motivations. Then, you have this as a background to work into your campaign.
* Before each session, pick one player to have a short e-mail conversation (or IM discussion) with about his/her character. Just make stuff up like was suggested with the index-card idea. Tell the player that they will be the focus of the next session. Rotate this between your characters. Ideas would be things like the cliches of long-lost siblings or other family members suddenly turning up, the recovery of a family heirloom, that kind of thing. Stuff that impacts only that character but doesn't really derail your whole session that you have planned.
* Offer in-game rewards for involvement (like the idea of an in-character journal) or participation on your game's message boards or Yahoo! group. Experience points or action points make good rewards.
* Lastly, I think it's fair to just politely explain to the other players that it's much easier for you as DM to make stories that revolve around the player who is really involved. Your non-involved player who is also a DM should understand this. Hopefully they'll be cool enough to understand, and also will appreciate that you're trying to balance the scales a little and they'll meet you halfway.

That's about all I can think of.

 

[Soul]

My suggestion would be at the begining of every session take some time to discuse the last session breifly, finding out what they liked/disliked and where they felt their characters could have shined a little more or what have you. Then at the end of every session ask them where they'd like to see things go, or anything in perticular their characters intend to do, or would like to acomplish, etc.. Take some notes a long the way. Then they can be involved on a level close to her, and if they don't offer up anything.. then remind them of that next time they complain.

 

[LrdApoc]

Totally agree, except they are complaining. They are grumpling and rightfully so that they are just followers of the one character. I want to fix that, and the best way I know of to do that is to try to get them more involved. But they have never really shown interest in become ing more involved.

Time for one of the subjects of this discussion to speak up.

I think you misunderstand the comments they are making. Complaining.. grumbling, etc. is the nature of Role Players.. however have they said "We need to stop this because I'm bored?" Not yet they haven't (at least I haven't.)

The issue for me is much more about time than it is about involvement. In the beginning I wrote a back story, offered clues and hints and found that regardless of what I did or tried to do it only ever came to no good. So after awhile I stopped... relegated myself to the position of player character #42 in the script and so be it. I don't want you to stop telling the stories you feel you want to.

I don't really have a big problem with the Cyree show aspect.. it is just that as you stated she has been playing in this world a long time in a one-on-one situation as the sole player. Mark and I (and I can't claim to speak for him BTW.) are discovering the world and we don't have the history or sense of the world she does.. therefor it is harder for us to create our own story elements and plots.

Add onto that all the other factors.. Mark is not a computer user.. he gets online once for a few minutes every few days to check e-mail. His life is his business. I work 40+ hours, write freelance, attend school and run 2 RPGs now. I somewhat view the Tuesday game as a release from stress, but since we have not started it up as yet I'm not sure what state I will find myself in.

I had to bow out for one week last year and came back only to find two years of game time had passed. That bugged me a bit but I understand that the game needs to go on if possible even when I or someone else isn't there.

Now we are 10-20 years later.. how am I supposed to know what Rock would want to do? I don;t even really have a good feel for where he would be in his life.. or why that amount of time has elapsed without my interference. I felt like you had resolved the plotlines and told us what happened and then asked us what we wanted to do... hard to make a lot of statement there.

 

[jester47]

I have a similar dynamic, but no one is complaining. There are two players that are really into participation. And two players that are fairly casual. We have two more coming in, one casual and the other has shown a history of participating and really getting into stuff. But the casuals like the others doing stuff and don't really complain.

Aaron.

 

[Rackhir]

Totally agree, except they are complaining. They are grumpling and rightfully so that they are just followers of the one character. I want to fix that, and the best way I know of to do that is to try to get them more involved. But they have never really shown interest in becoming more involved.

Have you asked them what solutions they'd suggest? If the basic problem is that they won't do what's necessary to fix the problem (ie. become more involved), then that might be useful to get them to face the source of the problem.

I think it sounds like in anycase, that asking the active player to try and involve the other characters in her goals and aspirations is a very good idea. Everyone likes to get the oportunity to be the center of attention once in a while. So simply occasionally focusing the plot on other characters may be enough to calm the grumbling.

Getting the players to work up some sort of a background, even if it's only a brief outline or concept, can give you handles to work the players into the plots better. In my last campaign, my character had been betrayed by his wife, who had also sacrificed their children to Iuz, before he killed her. The DM then had the wife show up (actually a demon in disguise) and eventually revealed what had actually happened to his wife and kid, after the Undead grandfather of another character bound my character to his service. This can work especially well if the characters are aiming for a prestige class since it provides a hook for the character to be working towards.