Party Ambush!

[Dunamin]

All the 6 characters from D&D Experience look pretty potent, and it made me think about how deadly they would be with focused effort on a single target.
Let’s say you have a villain that you want to put up against this party, and you want him bad enough that he can survive at least 1 round of successful attacks from all members when they are at peak capacity (an ambush, for instance). Of course, not all PCs would hit in a round and be in position to use their best attacks, but let’s work with those assumptions as a worst/best case scenario. It would look something like this:

Paladin: On Pain of Death, 3d8+3 dmg.
Cleric: Cascade of Light, 3d8+4 dmg.
Fighter: Brute Strike, 3d10+5 dmg.
Ranger: Split the Tree, 2d10+4 (nearby minion as additional target).
Wizard: Acid Arrow, 2d8+5 dmg.
Warlock: Curse of the Dark Dream, 3d8+4 dmg.

Not taking all the synergy into account (such as opportunity attacks from one PC triggered by the power of another PC) and all the immediate and secondary effects of such an onslaught, this would be an average damage over 100! Holy crap! Those solo monster better pack a mountain of hp!

 

[Darth Cyric]

You forgot to factor in the Ranger's Hunter's Quarry (+1d8 with Lethal Hunter feat) and the Warlock's Curse (+1d6). And unlike Defender marks, there was nothing mentioned about Ranger and Warlock not stacking.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, looks like a 4th level solo monster (black dragon) at the end of the adventures yesterday managed victory with many PC deaths (and perhaps some TPK's?). It appears that only Mike Mearls lost his dragon to the party, and reading his blog he had some very unlucky rolls and the party had some very lucky ones!

Cheers

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Well, looks like a 4th level solo monster (black dragon) at the end of the adventures yesterday managed victory with many PC deaths (and perhaps some TPK's?). It appears that only Mike Mearls lost his dragon to the party, and reading his blog he had some very unlucky rolls and the party had some very lucky ones!

I thought this was supposed to be a 1st level party and a 1st level solo monster would be balanced as a tough fight for them. Instead a 4th level solo monster won mostly but with few TPKs? That seems a bit off to me, especially given that these were pre-gens with none of the optimizing one might see in a normal campaign.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I thought this was supposed to be a 1st level party and a 1st level solo monster would be balanced as a tough fight for them. Instead a 4th level solo monster won mostly but with few TPKs? That seems a bit off to me, especially given that these were pre-gens with none of the optimizing one might see in a normal campaign.

Read Mike's blog entry to get to grips with what was going on, I've just given a mini-precis.

 

[Darth Cyric]

I thought this was supposed to be a 1st level party and a 1st level solo monster would be balanced as a tough fight for them.

No, actually I remember the 4e encounter philosophy being described as party vs. party, not party vs. solo.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

No, actually I remember the 4e encounter philosophy being described as party vs. party, not party vs. solo.

Yes but the "Solo" monster IS supposed to be balanced against fighting the entire party. It's been put down in writing by the people at WoTC.

 

[Plane Sailing]

HSB, Don't forget that there is supposed to be a wider spread of possible level matchups now - so while in 3e an EL of +/-2 was expected to be within the reasonable challenge range, that has now expanded (I think I've seen +/-6 mentioned before).

So

a) a 1st level party against a 4th level solo monster is within expected bounds (as would be a 1st level party against a 4th level party)

b) you would expect it to be a very tough encounter for the 1st level party, but not necessarily suicidal (which it seems to have been in most cases in those adventures - and somewhat more deadly than might be expected once people get experience working together as a party)

So what in particular seems a bit 'off' to you?

Cheers

 

[Klaus]

Well, looks like a 4th level solo monster (black dragon) at the end of the adventures yesterday managed victory with many PC deaths (and perhaps some TPK's?). It appears that only Mike Mearls lost his dragon to the party, and reading his blog he had some very unlucky rolls and the party had some very lucky ones!

Cheers

That's because Mearls is a hack!



Actually, no he isn't. The dice just hate him.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Don't forget that there is supposed to be a wider spread of possible level matchups now - so while in 3e an EL of +/-2 was expected to be within the reasonable challenge range, that has now expanded (I think I've seen +/-6 mentioned before).

I've run +6-8CR encounters in 3e but this was with heavily optimized parties. Without the optimizing you're right the range is about +3 before it gets really difficult.

So what in particular seems a bit 'off' to you?

Thing is these are non-optimized pregenerated characters and there are no splat books for power creep or exploits to come into play. Yet of the encounters run only a few were TPK or had extensive PC losses. Seems like the edge has been dulled so characters are less likely to die even in overmatched encounters than 3e.