CapnZapp
Legend
Perhaps he didn't feel a need to bathe; being cleaned so regularly by his animal "friends"...?
D&D 5E party composition at character level 7
- Thread starter qnaspc
- Start date
I think @qnaspc is having fun being a bard, but not having fun losing fights. And it's that latter part he wants advice on (even if that means giving up the bard part)
D&D is not just role-playing after all. It is a game too. And a game you can be good or bad at. Fun isn't everything if you never win.
Actually, in my circles D&D is the rpg most suited to the "game" part. D&D is by far the tabletop rpg we view as most inviting to powergaming. D&D is by far the rpg where I see players treating their characters as playing pieces to be optimized, rather than living breathing beings with quirks and flaws.
So actually one honest suggestion, qnaspc, is - if having fun is much more important than winning, perhaps switch games? There are A LOT of fantasy rpgs where charop and dps and winning isn't nearly as large a part of the game's heritage. Good luck qnaspc!
Hello!
First of all thank you all very much for your suggestions. Showing me other options was great. thank you.
I had a lot of fun playing my bard. i am going to stay bard thanks to your suggestions .
maybe ill explain why i asked for help:
We played this campaign for more than one year. we did not really have a fight for the same amount of time. the adventure took place in baldurs gate and so a lot of talking and politics was part of the campaign. So there were a lot of opportunities acting/playing my bard. Some other things happened too.
On the night we wanted to end the campaign, my friends told me that one member left the group (not forever, but for a longer period of time). The group lost a very powerful fighter. Leaving us alone, the group size decreased from 5 to 4 on an important fight night. Maybe i was a little bit disappointed that he left and when we ran away from the bossfight (live on to fight for another day) my disappointment trippled. At least, on that evening, i wanted to be a hero and defeat the enemy of baldurs gate which i could not do because one great guy was not there. But maybe this fight was meant to show us that there are more powerful enemies out there.
Anyways, this fight showed me that shooting with just a crossbow, killing a horde of enemies is too slow. My bard has to stand on his own feet, he has to support the group with a little bit more damage. Especially now that we are only four peolpe.
I like the idea of taking conjure animals. Imagine a bard riding on a rhino into the new town while playing his instruments. what a show!
On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with another fireball. ;-)
Thank you all for your suggestions and showing me other cool options! All your options where very refreshing for me!
Thanks for cheering me up.
I'll stick to bard, 'cause who else will keep on rockin'?
Greetings your Bard in Need!
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[MENTION=6861188]qnaspc[/MENTION],
Quick question, what made the party squishy? The difference in hit points (aside from possible difference in CON bonus) on a d8 vs a d10 at 6th level is only 7 hp and the difference in AC between heavy armor (which fighters, paladins, and some clerics start) should only be a difference of getting hit once out of 20 attacks that would have been a miss.
Using a paladin instead of a blade warlock is a small difference in what's squishy unless the warlock was built squishy. A warlock looking for melee would be playing a dwarf or picking up medium armor using a feat. A great weapon fighter (one of the earlier suggestions) doesn't have a huge hp benefit on d10's over d8's at lower levels, is definitely not using a shield, and second wind doesn't keep up to better healing spells compared to a lore bard with medium armor and a shield.
My point is that it's not necessarily what classes are being used but how they are being built and used. On a lore bard in a group that needed some less squish I would have picked up medium armor and shield with variant human via feat. If I wanted to do more damage I would have gone TWF instead of using the crossbow and picked up a more damaging cantrip at either 6th or 10th level. If I expected or wanted to do both regularly I would pick up medium armor and at 6th level shillelagh and greenflame blade make for decent melee on a lore bard.
What I would caution against is over-focus on being a healer. Bards heal well but healing works best as an emergency and after other methods of damage mitigation such as positioning, short rest recovery (hit dice healing and song of rest), and spells used to prevent damage in the first place (Tasha's is a good low level example). Spell slots are capable of preventing more damage than they heal at times. With a wizard and a bard in the group control style of spells would carry a lot of impact in the group listed in the OP.
I'm also curious on how bardic inspiration was being used. Bardic inspiration, magical secrets, and skill bonus abilities are the draws to playing a bard. Based on the campaign you had described prior to that fight skill benefits should have been a plus for your bard most of the campaign and worth keeping but don't necessarily have much impact on combat (they can have uses so shouldn't be forgotten). Magical secrets covers a lot for whatever gap is missing but tends to be limited until later with the exception of the lore bard, and still only 2 spells so choose wisely. Bardic inspiration can have a decisive impact on combat. It's the reason I would always recommend a bard or paladin (for the auras) to fill out a group.
In it's base form it applies to an ability check, attack roll, or saving throw. A fall back bonus to a saving throw is awesome. Changing what would have been a failed check or attack can be crucial at times but it's always adding damage allowing for a hit that would have otherwise missed. Lore bards add cutting words to allow the same resource for reducing an attack roll, ability check, or damage roll. Reducing an attack roll can prevent a fair bit of damage while reducing an damage roll from an AoE can save damage to the entire party. Reducing skill checks is just plain fun and given the bard's skill benefits can really benefit opposed checks. My advice here is not to get carried away with cutting words. It's fun but using up BI (bardic inspiration) dice on cutting words means not giving out BI dice to the party who can really benefit from making that attack, check, or saving throw. Cutting words also has the restrictions against charm immunity and 60 ft range that applying the dice to others does not.
If you enjoy playing the bard, you should probably keep playing him and look at ways to shore up the critical areas that you did not enjoy (the combat in this case). Rather than switch to a cleric if that doesn't work out as well as one would hope then a smaller jump to the valor bard (or a UA variant) would probably suit you better. The class is still the same class with all of the same main draws. The difference is that the valor bard is designed for better combat with free medium armor and shield proficiency and extra attack, and battle magic later. Combat inspiration adds using BI dice for weapon damage (possibly useful but generally better spent on missed attack rolls) or as an armor class bonus. Unlike cutting words, combat inspiration enhances bardic inspiration instead of competing with it. This is important in a group that might appear squishy because AC bonus is similar to attack roll reduction (but more reliable given cutting word restrictions) and the same die is available for saving throw bonus instead if it's important. The drawback is that it cannot be used on the bard when cutting words can be used to help oneself. Handing out BI dice to the squishy party on a valor bard is helpful over spending BI dice on cutting words and missing out on the opportunity for saving throw bonuses, which tends to happen on the either or nature of BI dice vs cutting words.
The paladin will make a difference anyway. Heavy armor and d10's isn't as big a differences as some tend to believe, but the spell selection, smiting, auras, and healing definitely also have impact. I don't want to leave a misleading impression from comments earlier in this post. It's not just the armor and hit die that should be considered.
Just some food for thought. Hopefully it helps.
Quick question, what made the party squishy? The difference in hit points (aside from possible difference in CON bonus) on a d8 vs a d10 at 6th level is only 7 hp and the difference in AC between heavy armor (which fighters, paladins, and some clerics start) should only be a difference of getting hit once out of 20 attacks that would have been a miss.
Using a paladin instead of a blade warlock is a small difference in what's squishy unless the warlock was built squishy. A warlock looking for melee would be playing a dwarf or picking up medium armor using a feat. A great weapon fighter (one of the earlier suggestions) doesn't have a huge hp benefit on d10's over d8's at lower levels, is definitely not using a shield, and second wind doesn't keep up to better healing spells compared to a lore bard with medium armor and a shield.
My point is that it's not necessarily what classes are being used but how they are being built and used. On a lore bard in a group that needed some less squish I would have picked up medium armor and shield with variant human via feat. If I wanted to do more damage I would have gone TWF instead of using the crossbow and picked up a more damaging cantrip at either 6th or 10th level. If I expected or wanted to do both regularly I would pick up medium armor and at 6th level shillelagh and greenflame blade make for decent melee on a lore bard.
What I would caution against is over-focus on being a healer. Bards heal well but healing works best as an emergency and after other methods of damage mitigation such as positioning, short rest recovery (hit dice healing and song of rest), and spells used to prevent damage in the first place (Tasha's is a good low level example). Spell slots are capable of preventing more damage than they heal at times. With a wizard and a bard in the group control style of spells would carry a lot of impact in the group listed in the OP.
I'm also curious on how bardic inspiration was being used. Bardic inspiration, magical secrets, and skill bonus abilities are the draws to playing a bard. Based on the campaign you had described prior to that fight skill benefits should have been a plus for your bard most of the campaign and worth keeping but don't necessarily have much impact on combat (they can have uses so shouldn't be forgotten). Magical secrets covers a lot for whatever gap is missing but tends to be limited until later with the exception of the lore bard, and still only 2 spells so choose wisely. Bardic inspiration can have a decisive impact on combat. It's the reason I would always recommend a bard or paladin (for the auras) to fill out a group.
In it's base form it applies to an ability check, attack roll, or saving throw. A fall back bonus to a saving throw is awesome. Changing what would have been a failed check or attack can be crucial at times but it's always adding damage allowing for a hit that would have otherwise missed. Lore bards add cutting words to allow the same resource for reducing an attack roll, ability check, or damage roll. Reducing an attack roll can prevent a fair bit of damage while reducing an damage roll from an AoE can save damage to the entire party. Reducing skill checks is just plain fun and given the bard's skill benefits can really benefit opposed checks. My advice here is not to get carried away with cutting words. It's fun but using up BI (bardic inspiration) dice on cutting words means not giving out BI dice to the party who can really benefit from making that attack, check, or saving throw. Cutting words also has the restrictions against charm immunity and 60 ft range that applying the dice to others does not.
If you enjoy playing the bard, you should probably keep playing him and look at ways to shore up the critical areas that you did not enjoy (the combat in this case). Rather than switch to a cleric if that doesn't work out as well as one would hope then a smaller jump to the valor bard (or a UA variant) would probably suit you better. The class is still the same class with all of the same main draws. The difference is that the valor bard is designed for better combat with free medium armor and shield proficiency and extra attack, and battle magic later. Combat inspiration adds using BI dice for weapon damage (possibly useful but generally better spent on missed attack rolls) or as an armor class bonus. Unlike cutting words, combat inspiration enhances bardic inspiration instead of competing with it. This is important in a group that might appear squishy because AC bonus is similar to attack roll reduction (but more reliable given cutting word restrictions) and the same die is available for saving throw bonus instead if it's important. The drawback is that it cannot be used on the bard when cutting words can be used to help oneself. Handing out BI dice to the squishy party on a valor bard is helpful over spending BI dice on cutting words and missing out on the opportunity for saving throw bonuses, which tends to happen on the either or nature of BI dice vs cutting words.
The paladin will make a difference anyway. Heavy armor and d10's isn't as big a differences as some tend to believe, but the spell selection, smiting, auras, and healing definitely also have impact. I don't want to leave a misleading impression from comments earlier in this post. It's not just the armor and hit die that should be considered.
Just some food for thought. Hopefully it helps.
