Party of Three
- Thread starter KingCrab
- Start date
wolfpunk
First Post
Today, I played in a three party group, we had a 5th level tiefling cleric, a 6th level kobold warmage and a 3rd level half-blue dragon fighter.
We played an old fashioned dungeon crawl, with an encounter in just about every room, and honestly, it has to be one of the funnest days of gaming I have had in a very long time (could be because my 6 wisdom kobold warmage was dealing excellent damage with his spells, actually I think his ego got so big it didn't fit in the room with the party).
I think good players, who have good understanding and use of tactics can handle the challenges of a four person party with average skill.
In groups of two players, gestalt characters and the leadership feat goes a long way.
We played an old fashioned dungeon crawl, with an encounter in just about every room, and honestly, it has to be one of the funnest days of gaming I have had in a very long time (could be because my 6 wisdom kobold warmage was dealing excellent damage with his spells, actually I think his ego got so big it didn't fit in the room with the party).
I think good players, who have good understanding and use of tactics can handle the challenges of a four person party with average skill.
In groups of two players, gestalt characters and the leadership feat goes a long way.
Herobizkit
Adventurer
I'd like to chime in another vote for Gestalt characters. I've allowed and played them in solo campaigning and in 2- and 3-man groups to incredible effect.
Mooks. Hired thugs. Spear carriers. Every group of heroes needs people to "take hits" for them.
DMPC's are a good idea IF your game is more story- than action-oriented. Otherwise, make sure your NPC's are not as spectacular as your PCs, either by making them single-classed and/or limiting them to the NPC classes only. Also, the "guest star" concept of having an assistant du jour (ie one new NPC per adventure that leaves at its conclusion) is the old meat and potatoes of D&D - use at will.
Mooks. Hired thugs. Spear carriers. Every group of heroes needs people to "take hits" for them.
DMPC's are a good idea IF your game is more story- than action-oriented. Otherwise, make sure your NPC's are not as spectacular as your PCs, either by making them single-classed and/or limiting them to the NPC classes only. Also, the "guest star" concept of having an assistant du jour (ie one new NPC per adventure that leaves at its conclusion) is the old meat and potatoes of D&D - use at will.
Herobizkit
Adventurer
Short answer: Yes.
Gestalt requires a good working knowledge of what the classes already DO, plus a fair bit o' number-tinkering. To this end, use the core classes only, and only allow them to use the two classes they originally selected rather than picking willy-nilly each level.
Example:
Player A wants to be a good fighter and be able to fling fire from his fingertips. (Or, a fingertip-fire-flinging fighter -- Huzzah! Alliteration!). He decides on a Fighter/Mage Gestalt. He gets:
: Warrior Attack Bonus, HP, +2 Fort saves, Weapon/Armor proficiencies, and Fighter Feats.
: Wizard spell progression, selection of spells, +2 Wil saves, and Scribe Scroll.
(Of course, the player must now decide whether or not to forego armor so he can cast his spells...)
Numerically, it's an easy pick... now try Paladin/Monk and see if your numbers add up.
It's a lot of information for teh n00bs to process, since they will essentially be processing info from two classes at once. One idea might be to see if they can agree on one extra class that they all share, and pick their "alternate" class on their own. This would automatically give them a reason for adventuring together -- perhaps they're from the same school/family/organization, or work together -- and gives them a general idea of seeing how each other performs in combat using the same-ish skill set.
Gestalt requires a good working knowledge of what the classes already DO, plus a fair bit o' number-tinkering. To this end, use the core classes only, and only allow them to use the two classes they originally selected rather than picking willy-nilly each level.
Example:
Player A wants to be a good fighter and be able to fling fire from his fingertips. (Or, a fingertip-fire-flinging fighter -- Huzzah! Alliteration!). He decides on a Fighter/Mage Gestalt. He gets:
: Warrior Attack Bonus, HP, +2 Fort saves, Weapon/Armor proficiencies, and Fighter Feats.
: Wizard spell progression, selection of spells, +2 Wil saves, and Scribe Scroll.
(Of course, the player must now decide whether or not to forego armor so he can cast his spells...)
Numerically, it's an easy pick... now try Paladin/Monk and see if your numbers add up.
It's a lot of information for teh n00bs to process, since they will essentially be processing info from two classes at once. One idea might be to see if they can agree on one extra class that they all share, and pick their "alternate" class on their own. This would automatically give them a reason for adventuring together -- perhaps they're from the same school/family/organization, or work together -- and gives them a general idea of seeing how each other performs in combat using the same-ish skill set.
Kae'Yoss
First Post
freyar said:
Depends on the players. Something with a modicum of smart will be able to deal with it, as long as you don't shower them with options to go with the gestalt. I'd take multiclassing out of the equation (so everyone takes two classes and sticks with them), and you might want to limit the base class selection as well - or make suggestions of gestalt combinations that are both simple and effective, and advice them on those combos they choose. And after everyone has chosen his two classes, give them a write-up of the gestalt class (where they can see what they're getting on each level, what skills are class skills, what their HD, BAB, save bonuses, skill points, and so on are.
wolfpunk
First Post
There are definitely gestalt class combinations that are more effective than others. If you can have a hand in the creation of their characters, you can definitely help them make better decisions and help them understand what tactics will work best for the character. Depending on what type of adventure you are running, an easy way to introduce gestalt is to have everyone take fighter levels for one of their class choices, and then whatever they want for the other side. This simplifies what they have to keep track of, it also works well for combat heavy adventures.
Chris_Nightwing
First Post
Crawling through Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil with three players is surprisingly easy. Starting at 4th level we had a straight human fighter with whirlwind attack and a greatsword (very nice for low-level minions), who then advanced up to weapon specialisation, cleave, improved critical, etc. Second was my character, a monk/sorceror with the complete adventurer stack-class-abilities feat as soon as he could get it, advancing to arcane fist (is that the PrC name?) and either dishing out lots of d6 per hit or acting as a shield by maxing out AC with shield, mage armour, alter self for natural armour, etc. Finally there was a druid with animal companion who was mostly a healer (although wands of CLW we <3 you for in between battles), he managed to die sadly but was replaced with a cleric, who died again much later, so I think we've got a favoured soul now. Either way, I think the only essentials for a small party are a tank and someone who can use wands of healing.
