Party stuck on puzzle. Any ideas?

[Infiniti2000]

Who wants in on this wager?

I bet the actual DC was "your roll + 1".

At this point im pretty sure the DM is trying to say "Solve the puzzles in the correct manner or die."

Yeah, see, that's just crap.

 

[Nail]

Who wants in on this wager?

I bet the actual DC was "your roll + 1".

I'd take the wager, if there was some way we could reliabily prove the statement, one way or another. Currently, I'm not sure what facts to take a face value. Question did say he rolled a "2", after all. Given he later says he rolled a 33, that means his character has a +31 Fort save.

Regardless, I'd love to hear how this "trap" progresses.....'cause I smell a rat.

 

[Question]

No, what i meant was that i got a total score of 33 on the will save. That includes the roll of 19 + the 14 modifier to will saves.

I rolled a 2 on the fort save though, which was after the will save.

 

[Nail]

Ouch!

You rolled a 19 and still lost?

...At this point, I'd be strongly tempted to tell the DM "Fine. Whatever........"

 

[Question]

Im not sure whether DC 34+ saves are supposedly to be common at ECL 15. In another ECL 15 game im in, one of the monsters we faced in a dungeon designed to kill us was a giant bug of some kind, with a ref DC 34 trample save. Now, this wouldnt normally be a problem......we could just cast fly and laugh at it for example. We were however in a square room with no cover and only 20 ft high(just enough for the bug). We won when i switch one of my spells around to wall of force(the DM didnt realise moonbow did that much damage) and used it to block the bug in and then the Ghaele machine gunned it with its light ray attacks, but not before we hit it with quite a few attacks.

 

[Jack Simth]

Im not sure whether DC 34+ saves are supposedly to be common at ECL 15. In another ECL 15 game im in, one of the monsters we faced in a dungeon designed to kill us was a giant bug of some kind, with a ref DC 34 trample save. Now, this wouldnt normally be a problem......we could just cast fly and laugh at it for example. We were however in a square room with no cover and only 20 ft high(just enough for the bug). We won when i switch one of my spells around to wall of force(the DM didnt realise moonbow did that much damage) and used it to block the bug in and then the Ghaele machine gunned it with its light ray attacks, but not before we hit it with quite a few attacks.

DC 34+ should be a rather rare thing, even at 20th; a CR 20 Pit Fiend's spell likes:
"At will - blasphemy (DC 25), create undead, fireball (DC 21), greater dispel magic, greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), invisibility, magic circle against good, mass hold monster (DC 27), persistent image (DC 23), power word stun, unholy aura (DC 26);

1/day - meteor swarm (DC 27)." - Meteor Swarm is a 9th level equivalent spell.

Spells are usually 10+Spell Level + Ability Modifier + Bonuses. To put this in perspective, a Gnomeish Illusionist With Spel Focus, Greater Spell Focus Illusion, and an Intelligence score of 26 would have a DC of only 30 on Shades (9th level spell). DC 34+ is.... kinda..... not right.

 

[Question]

The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + ½ creature’s HD + creature’s Str modifier

Hmm well as far as i can tell the bug had quite a few HD and a very high str modifier. Im going to try and get the bug stats from the DM anyway, since we killed it already.

 

[Nail]

DCs for saves follow this pattern:

DC =10 + 1/2 HD + key ability modifer

That means that by the time you get to CR 15 creatures (18 - 20 HD average, with ability scores in the 25 range), the DC you should expect is (10+9+7) 26.

You'll note that's NOT 34.

With your PC's +14 Will save, you would have made a DC 26 save about 45% of the time, which is about right for that challenge level. If your DM is throwing a DC 34 trap at you, that implies (using averages from core monsters in the MM 3.5e) that you are facing a CR 20 - CR 23 threat!

Chew on that for a while......

 

[Nail]

..a CR 20 Pit Fiend's spell likes:....

It's tough to say if this is a "spell-like ability" or a "supernatural power". Spell-like abilities use spell level (as you point out), while (Su) powers use HD. They can both do the kinda thing we're discussing.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + ½ creature’s HD + creature’s Str modifier

Irrelevant, quite frankly. Trample is not save or die. It's save or get damaged more than you would otherwise.

As a DM, I'd definitely not use a DC 34 save or die. A DC 34 save or turn into something that requires resurrection after you possibly kill your party members just blows goats.