D&D 5E Passive Perception

[Jaracove]

Not sure I like Passive Perception

Say there's a trap and it has a DC 15, anyone with a PP 15+ spots it just by passing close by it? Sure I could raise the DC to 21 or something, but that defeats the idea of PP; I may as well just ditch it.

I like my players to be vigilant and self aware and actively search around for things (traps, secret doors, etc). I don't want them passively spotting this and that just by being in the vicinity. A case of, unless the 'thing' is glaringly obvious, if my players don't tell me they're searching the floor by the entrance they won't spot the trip wire running across its base.

I may be misunderstanding PP but I find it pointless. If I need to check my players' characters' perception on things, I can print out a page of randomly rolled d20 results and go with that

 

[Astrosicebear]

A PP of 15 or higher is either a specialized character, or late game.

PP is a useful tool for basic traps and speeding up overworld travel and dungeon exploring... no more searching each 5ft square.

There are still times where the players need to inspect the statue to find the hidden compartment as theres no way PP can find it. Or move the rug to find the trapdoor.

TL;DR is that PP is your friend not your enemy.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Say there's a trap and it has a DC 15, anyone with a PP 15+ spots it just by passing close by it?

Don't use static DC values with Passive Perception. You either roll Perception as normal against DC 15, or roll d20 + 5 against the Passive Perception of everyone in the party.

The point of Passive Perception is that you can allow one creature/object to have a reasonable chance of hiding, because it only rolls once, and four or five people each rolling to notice something would virtually guarantee that one person sees it.

 

[Jaracove]

A PP of 15 or higher is either a specialized character, or late game.

PP is a useful tool for basic traps and speeding up overworld travel and dungeon exploring... no more searching each 5ft square.

There are still times where the players need to inspect the statue to find the hidden compartment as theres no way PP can find it. Or move the rug to find the trapdoor.

TL;DR is that PP is your friend not your enemy.

What about that tripwire across the hallway?

Surely it's more satisfying for a player to spot it rather than a game mechanic? I understand what you're saying but it doesn't cover all bases. I think that's my main beef with PP; not so much how it is used, but that it's a grey area. For me at least.

 

[Rune]

I treat passive perception as just that--passive. They notice something they were not actively looking for. Some detail stands out, but further investigation (or a good guess) will be needed to determine why.

An active perception check may provide more details. Investigation, on the other hand, will provide both details and context for them, but can never be used passively.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Here's the problem with the "numbers on a chart" solutions. You may as well just have it always be noticed and explain to your players that stealth is largely useless for sneaking up on a big group. Because the distribution is +1-20, someone is all but guaranteed to roll high. This issue expands the bigger the party is. If you insist on rolling, I'd use Fate dice to modify their passive perception (+4 to -4) which limits the dice spread. Passive Perception's real use is to cut down on OCD pixel bitching. "I check the floor, wall and ceiling, probing with my 13, 12, 11 and finally 10 foot pole. I look at the door AND door frame, AND the top of the door. I listen, making sure to cover the ear horn with wire mesh to prevent ear seekers" and so on. PP helps give a prompt that there's something which should probably be reviewed in greater detail.

Incidentally, actively searching seems to fall under the Investigate skill. Perception really is for things you happen to notice without having to constantly ask for DM input (ie, the room is getting colder, there's an annoying buzzing sound, etc). Passive perception lets you notice the faint odor of greek fire oi, which prompts the investigation roll of the statue where you find the soot residue and then begin work to disarm the flamethrower trap.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Have the trip wire have Stealth +5 instead of a flat 15 DC. Then roll and compare to passive perception. It's still random, but PCs with higher Perception will outperform those with lower, which in my book is a good thing.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

Or, you could note that tripwire is hard to see and give the passive perception a -5 penalty...

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

What about that tripwire across the hallway?

Surely it's more satisfying for a player to spot it rather than a game mechanic? I understand what you're saying but it doesn't cover all bases. I think that's my main beef with PP; not so much how it is used, but that it's a grey area. For me at least.

Satisfying how? By rolling an active perception check when prompted? Or By saying they are searching the floor every 5 feet (and then rolling)? What agency is there when searching everything becomes a routine procedure checklist you have to engage to avoid the gotcha stick?

At a certain point I realized the only reason the PC's are alive is because I haven't decided to kill them. This goes doubly so for traps. Most module traps seem artificially designed to be "fair" to the PC's when in an organic world they wouldn't be. Weight on one floor tile could trigger an attack behind it, to kill those poking with 10' poles. Other tiles should kill the person standing on them. Knock three times on Door A to avoid being lethally shocked when you turn the handle, 2 times on Door B, no times on Door C (but turn the handle counterclockwise first). Door D only shocks the caster of Mage Hand. Tiny explosive runes are etched onto this one, visible only with a magnifying glass. Haha rogue! Shouldn't have searched for traps. The trap builders know where they are and can memorize the workarounds. The Gotcha arms race was won even before it began by giving design power and authority to the DM.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Don't use static DC values with Passive Perception. You either roll Perception as normal against DC 15, or roll d20 + 5 against the Passive Perception of everyone in the party.

The point of Passive Perception is that you can allow one creature/object to have a reasonable chance of hiding, because it only rolls once, and four or five people each rolling to notice something would virtually guarantee that one person sees it.

Yeah, this. Subtract 10 from the DC and add that to a roll to see who notices the trap. It's a way for the DM to roll in secret without giving away that there's something the players might notice. Of course, you'll need to have the player's PC written down ahead of time, because asking them what their Passive Perception is might also tip them off