Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience

[dave2008]

I think it was a combination of factors that kept big bad around. First, the AC was at the high end (though not impossible to hit). I think it was a little less than a 50% hit rate. Second, the enemy had the ability to put negative status effects on the characters. Third, there was an attack that targeted multiple adjacent characters - allowing them to be tripped and unable to flank. This made it difficult for the rogue to reliable get sneak attack.

Interesting. I thought PF2e was based on a higher miss rate (closer to 75% for "boss" encounters). Regardless sounds interesting. Was this a monster from the bestiary (if so I would love to know what it was), or something custom for the adventure?

Perhaps I misread the OA for drawing weapons. My understanding is that it takes an interaction action to pull a weapon. Interact actions provoke OA.

Considering the 3-Action economy and an action to pull a weapon - yes, they can still do stuff with their remaining actions, but consider the common plight of ranged attack characters: 1 action to stow a weapon, 1 action to pull a weapon, and 1 action to move into position. That's a whole wasted turn. By the next turn, the enemy could be out of position again, then it's: 1 action to stow melee weapon, 1 action to draw ranged weapon, 1 action to attack.

FYI, it is a move action. Here are the rules I was referring too (there may be others and am only about 50% familiar with PF2e rules at this point):

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 186
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.

Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.

EDIT: After reading table 7-2 I'm completely confused as I thought PF2e removed most OAs, but there is a ton of them in that table. And it does state drawing doesn't provoke, but sheathing does

 

[Retreater]

Interesting. I thought PF2e was based on a higher miss rate (closer to 75% for "boss" encounters). Regardless sounds interesting. Was this a monster from the bestiary (if so I would love to know what it was), or something custom for the adventure?

FYI, it is a move action. Here are the rules I was referring too (there may be others and am only about 50% familiar with PF2e rules at this point):

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 186
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.

Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.

EDIT: After reading table 7-2 I'm completely confused as I thought PF2e removed most OAs, but there is a ton of them in that table. And it does state drawing doesn't provoke, but sheathing does

You must be referring to a 1st edition rule. There are no "move" actions - only actions, reactions, free actions.

 

[Retreater]

Interesting. I thought PF2e was based on a higher miss rate (closer to 75% for "boss" encounters). Regardless sounds interesting. Was this a monster from the bestiary (if so I would love to know what it was), or something custom for the adventure?

Here are the stats on the monster, which I think made its debut in the adventure.

Spoiler: monster spoiler

Grauladon - Monsters - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

 

[dave2008]

You must be referring to a 1st edition rule. There are no "move" actions - only actions, reactions, free actions.

I think you are right, I was using the online rules and it easy to click on the wrong tab! However, move is a type of action, it is tagged all over the rule book. But perhaps I am using the wrong terminology. For example: stride, step, stand, mount, & leap are all move actions.

That being said, I am on the right tab now and it states:
"Some reactions are specifically meant to be used in combat and can change how the battle plays out drastically. One example of such a reaction is Attack of Opportunity, which fighters gain at 1st level. "

Since it specifically mentions fighters get them at lvl 1, it is my understanding is that other classes don't get AOs, but I am having a hard time proving that.

This is what I was really getting at, you don't get AO unless for have a feat that says you do. Most monsters don't get them either.

 

[dave2008]

Here are the stats on the monster, which I think made its debut in the adventure.

Spoiler: monster spoiler

Grauladon - Monsters - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

Thank you for sharing! That body slam is vicious for a 1 action attack. Definitely seems more challenging than many of the level 2 creatures in the Bestiary that I remember (but it has been a few months).

 

[Retreater]

@dave2008 that's true about OA, they are far less common than in PF1 (or even 5e). Nearly all my players come from games with more frequent OAs, so they try to avoid actions that would trigger them. I can't recall a single enemy I've controlled thus far using the ability. It makes combats more dynamic and movement more fluid.

 

[Philip Benz]

Overall Impressions
Faster and more threatening combats than 4e or 5e D&D, more options for character design, monsters that are "good out of the book," I'm pretty pleased with it. I don't know how it will go with higher level characters or if the players are buying in for the long haul, but so far so good.

Thanks for the report. My experience with players has been very similar - even players who are initially skeptical about PF2 have come around and are now enthusiastic.

Let me confirm that Dave was quoting from the PF1 rules, where drawing a weapon was a move action. This said, he's still right, in most cases drawing a weapon requires an action (the table 6-2 on page 273 lists "draw stow or pick up an item" as requiring an interact action, which has the "manipulate" trait, meaning it can draw AoOs, if adversaries possess them. Note that rogues and rangers can select the "quick draw" feat and forget about paying this action cost for weapons.

And actually, few monsters have the AoO reaction available. There are many varied and interesting (and sometimes dangerous) reactions listed in monster stats, but the venerable AoO seems to be reserved for fighter-type races like orcs, or fighter-types from a given race like lizardfolk defenders, but not lizardfolk scouts. And there are many monsters with no reaction listed at all.

We played a game last Friday and 2 2nd-level PCs accompanied by 2 1st-lvl NPCs had to fight a sort of giant sand worm (using the stats for an Ankhrav), a level 3 monster. It was a very close thing, with 2 combattants reaching the dying condition during combat. The thing that saved them was mobility, archery and magic. The tanglefoot cantrip worked often enough to slow the creature and let the others gain some range and finish the creature off with archery and attack spells (magic missile and produce flame). However, had the combat taken place in tighter quarters it could easily have been a TPK because standing toe-to-toe with a creature one level higher is very dangerous indeed.

Tactics are paramount in PF2. That was arguably true already in PF1, but many people insisted that because of the nature of full attacks (not to mention ubiquitous AoOs), any PC of 6th level or more was condemned to immobility.

 

[dave2008]

@dave2008 that's true about OA, they are far less common than in PF1 (or even 5e). Nearly all my players come from games with more frequent OAs, so they try to avoid actions that would trigger them. I can't recall a single enemy I've controlled thus far using the ability. It makes combats more dynamic and movement more fluid.

I agree, I am planning on removing them from my 5e games and making it a fighter feature or part of a feat like PF2e

 

[Philip Benz]

I agree, I am planning on removing them from my 5e games and making it a fighter feature or part of a feat like PF2e

Note that in PF2, it is a "fighter feat" so only characters whose class is fighter or who multiclass into fighter can select this feat.

I recall that before PF2's release, there was talk about any class being able to select cross-class feats, albeit at a higher level, but it appears that now this is only possible if you take a multiclass archetype.

Also note that some classes have interesting combat-related reactions, like the champion class, but that their effects are unique enough to make the fighter's AoO something special.

 

[CapnZapp]

PF2 Rangers can too get an AoO like ability.

(As is expected, it works only against marked enemies)