Savage Pathfinder Pathfinder Adventure Paths Are Coming To Savage Worlds!

Pinnacle Entertainment Group has announced that it will be bringing Paizo's Pathfinder adventurer paths to Savage Worlds, starting with Rise of the Runelords. They will be launching a Kickstarter in January 2021.

The Kickstarter includes a core ruleset called Savage Pathfinder, and a Rise of the Runelords boxed set.

 PRESS RELEASE

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It’s Thanksgiving here in the United States. For our international friends, that’s a time when we come together as friends and family and tell everyone what we’re thankful for.

Today, Pinnacle Entertainment Group is INCREDIBLY thankful to our good friends at Paizo for letting us play in their amazing world of Golarion, setting of the phenomenally successful Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Following the incredible reception we had with Kevin Siembieda’s phenomenal world of Rifts®, we’re bringing Pathfinder’s fantastic Adventure Paths to the Savage Worlds™ system, starting with the best-selling Rise of the Runelords™!

The Kickstarter begins mid-January, 2021, and will feature the Savage Pathfinder core rules, a boxed set with all the usual Savage Worlds accessories, AND the Rise of the Runelords boxed set with all six books of the Adventure Path and other deluxe accessories!

 

[Reynard]

The 'math-bug' in SW has always been a deal killer for me.

I don't understand how people have found it tolerable to play with such an obvious mathematical error in the games skill progression...

It got me to swear off the game after one session.

I like that PF1 adventure paths are being made for a non-d20 system, but SW?

In SW defense, people seem to like it anyway.

The error is less than a single percentage point. I would guess people don't mind because it barely ever shows up and not in any way that is glaringly obvious to the casual user (especially since player characters and wild cards always roll an extra d6 anyway).

 

[Thomas Shey]

The error is less than a single percentage point. I would guess people don't mind because it barely ever shows up and not in any way that is glaringly obvious to the casual user (especially since player characters and wild cards always roll an extra d6 anyway).

Yeah. The glitch is minor and pretty much invisible in play.

 

[Bacon Bits]

The error is less than a single percentage point. I would guess people don't mind because it barely ever shows up and not in any way that is glaringly obvious to the casual user (especially since player characters and wild cards always roll an extra d6 anyway).

No, it's more than a percentage point because a d8 is supposed to be better than a d6, not equal to it. After all, improving your trait should not only not make them worse, it should actually make them better! TN 8 on a d8! is 1 in 8 or 12.5%. TN 8 on a d10! is 3 in 10 or 30%. TN 8 on a d12! is 5 in 12 or 41.7%. TN 8 on a d4! is 1 in 16 or 6.3%. TN 8 on a d6! should be like 9%, but it's actually 5 in 36 or 13.9%.

 

[Bacon Bits]

The 'math-bug' in SW has always been a deal killer for me.

I don't understand how people have found it tolerable to play with such an obvious mathematical error in the games skill progression...

It got me to swear off the game after one session.

I like that PF1 adventure paths are being made for a non-d20 system, but SW?

In SW defense, people seem to like it anyway.

I still play SW quite happily. The combat in the game is super swingy and it reinforces the pulp feel. I just don't like heroic fantasy and pulp action together.

 

[Superchunk77]

No, it's more than a percentage point because a d8 is supposed to be better than a d6, not equal to it. After all, improving your trait should not only not make them worse, it should actually make them better! TN 8 on a d8! is 1 in 8 or 12.5%. TN 8 on a d10! is 3 in 10 or 30%. TN 8 on a d12! is 5 in 12 or 41.7%. TN 8 on a d4! is 1 in 16 or 6.3%. TN 8 on a d6! should be like 9%, but it's actually 5 in 36 or 13.9%.

You didn't factor in the wild die, which all PC's and wild cards get to roll. For a TN of 8, the differences between a d6 and a d8 is less than 1%. In addition, the TN of 8 is the only TN where this decrease occurs. So this so called "math bug" is all but imperceptible in play. If you were dealing with "Extras" the difference is slightly higher at 1.4% as you noted but again, that is a very low probability AND it only applies to Extras.

TN	D4	D6	D8	D10	12
1	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%
2	95.79%	97.21%	97.91%	98.35%	98.61%
3	83.26%	88.86%	91.65%	93.31%	94.42%
4	62.38%	75.01%	81.20%	84.97%	87.50%
5	49.91%	55.49%	66.71%	73.37%	77.80%
6	32.28%	30.47%	47.93%	58.31%	65.36%
7	27.05%	30.47%	37.50%	49.99%	58.41%
8	19.26%	25.79%	24.58%	39.71%	49.80%
9	16.67%	20.91%	22.16%	28.92%	40.73%
10	12.61%	15.91%	18.29%	17.51%	31.23%
11	8.48%	10.76%	14.36%	15.01%	21.26%
12	4.29%	5.49%	10.34%	11.53%	10.89%
13	4.29%	5.49%	8.82%	10.56%	10.89%
14	3.46%	4.59%	6.88%	9.16%	9.80%
15	2.62%	3.68%	4.91%	7.75%	8.71%
16	1.79%	2.77%	2.93%	6.31%	7.57%
17	1.32%	1.85%	2.47%	4.89%	6.45%
18	0.77%	0.92%	1.82%	3.44%	5.32%
19	0.67%	0.92%	1.63%	2.45%	4.63%
20	0.49%	0.77%	1.36%	1.39%	3.87%

 

[Sir Brennen]

You didn't factor in the wild die, which all PC's and wild cards get to roll. For a TN of 8, the differences between a d6 and a d8 is less than 1%. In addition, the TN of 8 is the only TN where this decrease occurs. So this so called "math bug" is all but imperceptible in play. If you were dealing with "Extras" the difference is slightly higher at 1.4% as you noted but again, that is a very low probability AND it only applies to Extras.

Not to be too pedantic, but the difference on your own table is 1.21%, so more than 1%. And a d8 has a lower chance of succeeding on a TN 8 than a d6.

For comparison, going from d10 to d12 is a 10% bump. That kind of increase is what most people are expecting when they improve an attribute or skill, not to actually drop a percentage point for a commonly desirable roll outcome. I can see where this might bug some people.

And by "commonly desirable roll outcome" I mean a TN 8 is the same as trying to get a Raise on the default TN 4. A Raise is something that does come up quite a bit in play, affecting damage output, power effects, Soak rolls, among other things.

I mention all this as an avid SW fan.

 

[Superchunk77]

Not to be too pedantic, but the difference on your own table is 1.21%, so more than 1%. And a d8 has a lower chance of succeeding on a TN 8 than a d6.

For comparison, going from d10 to d12 is a 10% bump. That kind of increase is what most people are expecting when they improve an attribute or skill, not to actually drop a percentage point for a commonly desirable roll outcome. I can see where this might bug some people.

And by "commonly desirable roll outcome" I mean a TN 8 is the same as trying to get a Raise on the default TN 4. A Raise is something that does come up quite a bit in play, affecting damage output, power effects, Soak rolls, among other things.

I mention all this as an avid SW fan.

My bad, I got the decimal places mixed up. But as it stands, the perception from the players will likely remain that a d8 is better than a d6. So yeah, it's a bug in the math, but does it really impact play in a perceptible way? From my experience as a SWADE GM it doesn't even come up. Hell, I never even knew about it until it was brought up in this thread LOL.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

There's nothing on the syllabus about there being homework for this class.

 

[dbm]

Also keep in mind that you are less likely to crit-fail if your skill is a d8.

 

[aramis erak]

Noting that Tails of Equestria uses the same kind of die-scaling, but a different kind of "open end," one which preserves the superiority of the d8...

In SW (all editions) max on the die is roll again and add.

In ToE, max on the die is roll 1 die of the next higher size and keep the higher of the two.

That said, SW has one thing that ToE doesn't... a bonus for beating the TN by 4+ ... The infamous "Raise"...

That raise means that the d6 shooting for TN 8 is 1/6*5/6, but of those 5/36, only 1/36 gets a raise. with 3/216 of 2 raises.
D8 is 1/8 for the 8+... but 5/64 of ≥1 raise, and 1/64 of two raises.
5/64 > 1/36, 1/64 > 3/216
The d8 increases the chances of exceptional results at the cost of slightly lower chances at key TNs.