Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Alpha "crunch" discussion

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

And there's the rub - that's a pretty huge "if". It would not surprise me one bit if Paizo reworks the wealth guidelines (and that's my prediction).

My problem here: Backwards compatibility.
What if you want to pick an old adventure and use it? Do you want to adjust all treasures in the adventure? NPC equipment?

What's with old PrCs? Most of the 3.0 can probably still be applied to 3.5 (except where they were to weak or broken in the first place). But if you improve classes and change wealth by level, these classes become useless as is. You might still be able to mine them for ideas, but that's not exactly what "compatible" sounds like too me. Because I can also mine GURPS books or Shadowrun books for ideas.

 

[Arnwyn]

My problem here: Backwards compatibility.
What if you want to pick an old adventure and use it? Do you want to adjust all treasures in the adventure? NPC equipment?

Preaching to the converted, man. I absolutely agree with you.

Thankfully I'm a bit 'luckier' than most, I'd reckon, in that I have no intention of using the Pathfinder RPG for PCs - this 3.Paizo would just end up being the basis for the NPCs in what I really want to buy - the Pathfinder modules. Thus, I'm in better shape on that front when it comes to backwards compatibility, since all these character changes would apply to NPCs only.

But yeah, like I said in this thread: Full backwards compatibility is an absolute must (otherwise I'd just play 4e!).

 

[Voadam]

And there's the rub - that's a pretty huge "if". It would not surprise me one bit if Paizo reworks the wealth guidelines (and that's my prediction).

It would surprise me. That would mean you'd have to adjust the loot in every mix and match module when flipping between 3.5 and 3P stuff.

Their goal is backwards compatibility.

More powerful races and classes with less magic item use and loot is like Iron Heroes. Needs adjustment to balance with normal D&D. I've used Iron Heroes stuff in my D&D games but I adjusted them for the D&D balances.

Different slottable 3e elements and systems would be like Arcana Evolved and could be used interchangeably with 3e stuff. I've used AE stuff in my D&D games straight with no problems similar to using 3.0 stuff in a 3.5 game.

Given the choice I'd much prefer an AE to an IH style of D&D 3.5 compatible stuff from Paizo.

 

[DaveMage]

One neat thing that will come out of this, though, is even those changes which are too much may be seen in Pathfinder RPG 2.0. 3.5 is still (relatively) young - only about 5 years old. In 1 year, we'll have a new version of 3.5 in the Pathfinder RPG. In, say, 5 more years after that, a new revision may be in order (or not if sales are still brisk). If so, changes not put in now can be used later.

It's all good!

 

[Geron Raveneye]

My problem here: Backwards compatibility.
What if you want to pick an old adventure and use it? Do you want to adjust all treasures in the adventure? NPC equipment?

What's with old PrCs? Most of the 3.0 can probably still be applied to 3.5 (except where they were to weak or broken in the first place). But if you improve classes and change wealth by level, these classes become useless as is. You might still be able to mine them for ideas, but that's not exactly what "compatible" sounds like too me. Because I can also mine GURPS books or Shadowrun books for ideas.

I can see the problem with the treasure in old 3E adventures, but what about Wealth-by-Level or improved base classes will make an old prestige class useless? I don't see any connection to the first, and the second only means the base class is already pretty powerful, and the prestige class will add to that instead.

I'd rather be worried about this Alpha skill system screwing prereqs for a prestige class three ways to Sunday, to be honest. Thanks to auto-max skills, all a character has to do to qualify for a prestige class is take the requisite skills and wait until his level gives him enough ranks. and with the added skill choices every even level, even a fighter will be able to get into the PrCs with the more obscure skill prereqs.

 

[Derro]

I'd rather be worried about this Alpha skill system screwing prereqs for a prestige class three ways to Sunday, to be honest. Thanks to auto-max skills, all a character has to do to qualify for a prestige class is take the requisite skills and wait until his level gives him enough ranks. and with the added skill choices every even level, even a fighter will be able to get into the PrCs with the more obscure skill prereqs.

Is that really an issue. In my experience characters geared toward a PrC generally get their skill pre-reqs covered first, taking them as early and as often as they can. I had considered what you state above at first as well but after some thought I don't see it being a real issue. If anything the flat skill progression screws over mixed parties with mixed bag skills. The Aid Another skill use gets massive use in all the games I play in mainly because there is usually a primary skill holder and a secondary skill holder. That seems less likely with this flat progression since skill distribution will probably be a lot more exacting with less cross-over except in personal skills. Utility skills like knowledges, decipher script, etc. will end up belonging to one character instead of showing up here and there.

This is an off the cuff post, here. I'm intending to get more in-depth when I'm done making dinner.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

EDIT: *grumble grumble* Double Post *grumble grumble*

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I'd rather be worried about this Alpha skill system screwing prereqs for a prestige class three ways to Sunday, to be honest. Thanks to auto-max skills, all a character has to do to qualify for a prestige class is take the requisite skills and wait until his level gives him enough ranks. and with the added skill choices every even level, even a fighter will be able to get into the PrCs with the more obscure skill prereqs.

That seems like a feature, rather than a bug. One of the things that I see a lot of complaints about is how you have to plan out every nuance of your character ahead of time to be able to get into the prestige class of your choice. If the PF skill system makes prestige class entry more forgiving, then that is an added bonus.

Later
silver

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I can see the problem with the treasure in old 3E adventures, but what about Wealth-by-Level or improved base classes will make an old prestige class useless? I don't see any connection to the first, and the second only means the base class is already pretty powerful, and the prestige class will add to that instead.

I was assuming (I think that was implied by the rules) that many of the "extras" you got where class abilities that didn't advance together with PrCs. I can't think of any Fighter PrC that would allow you to keep the Armor/Weapon Group bonuses, for example.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Yeah well, that's a given...is the same way right now already after all. When you take levels in a prestige class, your base class abilities don't advance at the same time except if you took a prestige class that added class abilities similar to your base class (e.g. sneak attack or spell levels). But where does wealth-by-level figure into it? And why does that make a prestige class useless? PrCs have a lot of useful abilities on their own list after all. Or did I miss something?

And why the heck are you up and here at half past eight already?