Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Alpha "crunch" discussion

[szilard]

I really just skimmed it, but things that weren't clear to me:

cantrips/orisons: The chart has them listed like other spells (which I read to be spells/day), but the text says you cast them at will. I'd suggest not calling them 0-level spells at all and removing them from the chart, instead gaining a new at-will spell-like ability every few levels.

skills: The text is confusing (and the xp/level chart has no clarifying text). What does "gaining a skill" mean vs. being trained in a skill?

Some feats (like Arcane Strike) have a duration - but is there a limit on their use? Can you only use one of these a round? Does it take a standard action (or something) to use?

-Stuart

 

[Kristian Serrano]

I'd just as soon post here but maybe someone could add a link over there to this thread in case they'd like to monitor it.

It would seem as though it would only benefit you to post there instead as there is already a community engaged in discussing some of these topics already. You'd have more of an audience and a starting base of ideas and dialogues. Otherwise, you'd be covering ground that has already been covered.

 

[Mark]

It would seem as though it would only benefit you to post there instead as there is already a community engaged in discussing some of these topics already. You'd have more of an audience and a starting base of ideas and dialogues. Otherwise, you'd be covering ground that has already been covered.

I understand your point but no, thank you.

 

[Ilium]

I really just skimmed it, but things that weren't clear to me:

cantrips/orisons: The chart has them listed like other spells (which I read to be spells/day), but the text says you cast them at will. I'd suggest not calling them 0-level spells at all and removing them from the chart, instead gaining a new at-will spell-like ability every few levels.

skills: The text is confusing (and the xp/level chart has no clarifying text). What does "gaining a skill" mean vs. being trained in a skill?

Some feats (like Arcane Strike) have a duration - but is there a limit on their use? Can you only use one of these a round? Does it take a standard action (or something) to use?

-Stuart

My take on your questions:

cantrips/orisons: The "spells per day" for 0-level is how many you can prepare. Then you can use any of your prepared cantrips as Spell-Like abilities at will with no limit. For this reason, they removed Cure Minor Wounds from the cleric spell list.

skills: "gaining a skill" means you gain one trained skill. This skill is immediately maxed out, just like all your other trained skills.

feats: There is no limit on how many times per day you can use the combat feats, but you can only use one at a time. So one round you might say "using dodge", then the next round use your Arcane Strike (or whatever). I like this, since it encourages the player to make decisions during the combat, rather than just tracking a pile of static modifiers.

All in all I like what I see. Need to read it more thoroughly, though.

 

[Voadam]

I really just skimmed it, but things that weren't clear to me:

cantrips/orisons: The chart has them listed like other spells (which I read to be spells/day), but the text says you cast them at will. I'd suggest not calling them 0-level spells at all and removing them from the chart, instead gaining a new at-will spell-like ability every few levels.

skills: The text is confusing (and the xp/level chart has no clarifying text). What does "gaining a skill" mean vs. being trained in a skill?

Some feats (like Arcane Strike) have a duration - but is there a limit on their use? Can you only use one of these a round? Does it take a standard action (or something) to use?

-Stuart

The cantrips and orisons must still be prepared in slots, the slots just don't go away when cast, you can do them an unlimited number of times per day. So you can prepare a limited number of them (3 or 4) but cast them unlimited times instead of 1/day.

You still have to choose whether you will prepare detect magic versus light versus ghost sound, versus mage hand, versus prestidigitation, versus daze, etc. for the day.


Skills you have a certain number of skills you know and this goes up with levels.

Acquiring Skills
At first level, your character gains a number of skills
dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence
modif ier. At every even character level after that, you
gain another skill (1 at 2nd level, another at 4th, etc.).

The combat feats it says in the beginning of that section (page 35) that you can only use one in a round but as many times a day as you want. So when you use dodge for the +1 AC you can't also use mobility to avoid AoOs in the same round.

 

[Kesh]

I'm looking forward to reading the grapple rules later in depth.

I didn't see much about monsters except in the conversion section, is there anything I missed?

Monsters won't get updated until later versions of the document. Check out the last page of the PDF, it has details on when certain items will be added.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

At initial glance, I am a little concerned about the Combat Maneuvers. It seems like an overly contrived way to create "tactics" and force the Fighter-types to "build up" to their best abilities. In my mind, this potentially puts an even greater power gap between Fighters and Wizards. While the warrior builds up to his Spring Attack (which happens in the 3rd round of combat at the earliest), the Wizard can launch his nastiest spells right from the start, or make use of one of his awesome and incredibly powerful spell-like abilities. Why create this kind of discrepancy?

It's going to take some playtesting. Or maybe I'm misreading something. But this is the first thing that sort of stuck in my craw. Wizards got a significant boost; I don't think they've yet gone far enough with Fighters and Rogues.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

There's a distinct forum on Paizo's site specifically for rules discussion. I highly recommend consolidating all discussions there so that they don't get lost in the shuffle.

I am not sure how much time I will invest in Pathfinder Alpha/Beta, but I am pretty sure I will not start visiting another board. I am already wasting enough time on EnWorld!

Okay, back to topic:

The Fighter abilities that increase attack and AC - what's their purpose, aside from adding even more "extra"? Are they planning to remove the Wealth By Level guidelines or magic armor/weapons in the long run? If not, this will only serve to increase the problem of the 3.x math. Easy fix: Call the bonus enhancement bonus.

The skill system: I am now a fan of the Starwars / 4E system. But specifically because they also remove the problem of the ever-increasing, math-breaking gap between untrained, trained and expert masters skill monkey cheater. I would suggest keeping the old skill point system, if you're not interested in changing the fundamental math. This will also help those that like 3.x as it is. (And it seems it's not only Psion that does like skill points )
Instead, add more skill points per level, and remove the cross class skill point cost. Max Ranks can stay.
But keep the table and use it as short-hand for NPC & monster creation.

For people that are still interested in E6 or simply prefer to level slowly, introduce retraining rules. Basically, increasing mastery or expanding requires levelling. If you don'T level, you can still change your skills - when training somethin new/different, you lose some of your training in the old.

Okay, that's it so far.

 

[catsclaw227]

The combat feats it says in the beginning of that section (page 35) that you can only use one in a round but as many times a day as you want. So when you use dodge for the +1 AC you can't also use mobility to avoid AoOs in the same round.

I was under the impression that the effects of feat chains stack. Hmmm.

Some of the feats are also required to be chained together, like the Arcane Strike/Conduit Spell/Arcane Buildup.

 

[Voadam]

I was under the impression that the effects of feat chains stack. Hmmm.

Some of the feats are also required to be chained together, like the Arcane Strike/Conduit Spell/Arcane Buildup.

It does not appear that they stack

Combat Feats
Combat feats represent various maneuvers and tricks that
characters can attempt to perform in combat. Although
these feats can be utilized any number of times per day,
you cannot utilize more than one combat feat in any
given round.
Unlike most feats, the benefits from combat feats are not
always active. Unless stated otherwise, you must choose to
use a combat feat before any attack rolls are made and its
effects last until the beginning of your next turn.
Some combat feats require a specific chain of events
to precede them before they can be utilized. Usually this
means that a specific combat feat had to be used in the
previous round—this represents a character positioning
his opponent for a more powerful strike.
Combat feats can be chosen as fighter bonus feats.