Pathfinder Beginner Box Review

Hello buckaroos! We return once again from the feet of the golem with a new PAIZO PRODUCT REVIEW! Today we’re looking at the new Pathfinder Beginner Box, Paizo’s latest in a hugely successful line of products for newcomers to our hobby. Spoiler alert: they’ve got another success on their hands. Let’s get into it!

Hello buckaroos! We return once again from the feet of the golem with a new PAIZO PRODUCT REVIEW! Today we’re looking at the new Pathfinder Beginner Box, Paizo’s latest in a hugely successful line of products for newcomers to our hobby. Spoiler alert: they’ve got another success on their hands. Let’s get into it!

PZO2106 PF2 Beginner Box 1200x675.jpg

First Impressions​

We start off this box review with an initial impression, and the initial impression is good! Bright, colorful, cheerful lettering, and a good heft—all things that say “good RPG thing must buy” to my primal dicegoblin brain. Upon first opening, we see a bag of dice, a bag of token bases, and a handful of small inserts culminating in a page that says READ THIS FIRST.

Of course I do not READ THAT FIRST! I huck the token bases to the side and take a gander at the dice. One each of d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d20, each in strong, single colors with clear lettering. I’m of mixed mind on these dice. On one hand, I appreciate a grab-bag approach to starter dice: my first starter set in a beginner box had mixed colors, and non-uniform dice to me makes them easier to share. That said, the bright primary colors evoke a handful of crayons, and while beginner boxes are in part meant to accommodate a younger audience and get them excited, I think the color-scheme may be skewing a bit young. The Crayola colors are easily forgiven as soon as you dig past the READ THIS FIRST page and you see the character sheets with delightful reference images for each of the dice—but we’ll get to the character sheets in a bit. I only have a few minor issues left with the dice. This is a bit snobbish, but I consider any dice set that doesn’t have two d10 and four d6 to be incomplete. Also, I’d prefer a resealable dice bag over the disposable one: my first set of dice from my beginner box is down to just five dice from the original ten because they spent their lives rattling around loose in their box.

Now, the inserts! A little postcard lets you know that there’s a custom Syrinscape playlist for the adventure contained within. Neat! The other postcards are player reference cards, which are about the best attempt at getting new players over the fairly steep Pathfinder learning curve I’ve seen yet. That said, there is a bit of a shock when you turn them over and are greeted with a wall of text. Finally, the READ THIS FIRST page is short, sweet, and to the point, laying out how to approach the Box as a solo player or with a group of players.

Character Sheets​

Below the READ THIS FIRST we have the character sheets, and here’s where the Box starts to show its hand a bit. You’re clearly meant to use this with a group of players, as it’s those pregenerated character folios which appear before the Hero’s Handbook which contains the solo adventure. That said, I have quite a lot of good things to say about these character sheets. Cover page features a name, a class, a huge splash art of the character’s portrait, and a quick description to help potential newcomers choose their playstyle.

Like the reference cards, the meat and potatoes of the character sheets can seem like an overwhelming barrage of information, but thankfully a solid half of that text is dedicated to explaining and leading a new player through the rather complicated process of understanding a Pathfinder character sheet. Truly excellent layout design is on display here—little coordinating lettered yellow circles lead the reader easily from explanation to relevant box, and the most-used sections of the sheet (AC, hit points, so on) are boxed out in red to stand out from the regular black. As I said before, there’s a handsome little sidebar displaying each of the dice available and their abbreviations—excellent! Also, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen this on a Pathfinder character sheet before, but these now have a space for personal pronouns! Finally, the layout artist gets a cheeky point from me for putting a few characters of character history on the back page of the folio—literal backstory.

As an aside: Wayne Reynolds' art maintains his high level of technical excellence, but there’s something repetitive about the characters' poses. This all stands in contrast to the cover art for the Hero’s Handbook, done by Ekaterina Burmak. The character posing here helps focus the eye on defining aspects of each character: Kyra’s pose pulls back and up into her holy symbol, shining forth with protecting energy against the lightning blast of the dragon. Valeros pushes forward into his shield, taking the brunt of the blast, emphasizing his role on the front line and the use of his shield in his playstyle. And then, off to the side, we see Merisiel darting in, lines almost blurred with speed, unseen by the dragon, dagger darting forward to the exposed neck. Sure, Wayne’s art is technically more accurate to the adventure—the dragon is green, and on top of one of the massive mushrooms in its cavern—but I definitely like Ekaterina’s art more.

The Hero's Handbook​

The Hero's Handbook kicks off with a solo adventure, a delightful little romp through a quick little cavern with a few nasties and quite a bit of treasure. My advice for those taking their own crack at it? Fortune favors the bold. The rest of the Hero’s Handbook concerns itself with expertly navigating a new player through the process of making a new character, complete with the colorful lettered circles that connect to spaces on the provided empty character sheets. Also, the Hero’s Handbook FINALLY does away with the difference between ability scores and ability modifiers—thank goodness.

The Game Master's Guide​

Like the Hero’s Handbook, the Game Master’s Guide kicks off with an adventure. As a GM and as an adventure designer, I do appreciate the way the adventure designers generally nail one-page sections for each room or encounter. Like with the solo adventure, there’s excellent escalation of challenges: first simple combat, then a combat with some saving throws, then skill checks, puzzles, persistent damage, and some undead to let the cleric shine in an offensive moment. Other nice spots of design include magical boon rewards and defending monsters getting some home turf advantages. Also, it must be said: this features a dragon in a dungeon. Points again!

My only real issues with the adventure was the tired artifact of XP—if we’re going to be doing away with ability scores and modifiers, just take the leap to milestone XP, especially if the Game Master’s Guide later insists all players advance equally anyway—and the climactic encounters seem a little lackluster. Perhaps it’s just a glut of excellent encounter design I’ve seen from other places lately, but I tend to expect a little more action from the environment. That said, this is an introductory adventure, and I wouldn’t want to throw a new GM too far into the deep end.

The rest of the Game Master’s Guide is simply excellent material for a new GM learning the ropes, and indeed is a fantastic refresher for experienced GMs wanting a straightforward and concise presentation of the fundamentals of running tabletop games in general and Pathfinder 2E in specific. My only issue with this section is that there's more ogre art in line with their supposed foul and flabby nature. I can tell this was a deliberate choice because much of the rest of the monster art, specifically that of the orcs, is lifted directly from the Bestiary. I will keep my ogres beautiful and beefy, thank you very much.

The Rest​

What’s left? Well, we have the fold-out maps, which are excellent and which absolutely require a full table to use properly. There are tokens for every monster that appears in the Game Master’s Guide, and even tokens for every ancestry/gender/class combination possible with the limited options available in the Hero’s Handbook. Also, some tokens with action and reaction symbols on them for use with the relevant spaces on the included character sheets.

In summary, the Pathfinder Beginner Box is an excellent introduction to the game for new solo players and new groups, and an excellent reintroduction for veterans looking for a refresh on the game’s core identity. Well worth the investment and guaranteed to be a hit at your table.
 

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Ben Reece

Ben Reece


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The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
OK. I thought maybe you were talking about an online character builder. It took me, a PF2e newb, about 30 min. with pen & paper before I got too frustrated and gave up.
Oh I get you, yeah its the Android app Pathbuilder 2e, if you look at my attachment a few posts ago, you can listen to me make a level 1 monk in 3 minutes and 53 seconds with it. Its super helpful.
 

dave2008

Legend
Oh I get you, yeah its the Android app Pathbuilder 2e, if you look at my attachment a few posts ago, you can listen to me make a level 1 monk in 3 minutes and 53 seconds with it. Its super helpful.
Honest question: is your audio file helpful if I don't have the app?

I also know there is no way I can make a character in under 4 minutes. It takes me longer than that to pick one feat!
 

Retreater

Legend
Oh I get you, yeah its the Android app Pathbuilder 2e, if you look at my attachment a few posts ago, you can listen to me make a level 1 monk in 3 minutes and 53 seconds with it. Its super helpful.
"Good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living, that's something else."
I mean, if you need an Android app to compete with the speed and simplicity of making a character in an OSR system, that hardly counts for me. When we were playing PF2, half my players (on Apple products) didn't have the ability to use that app. So we'd talk over Discord, and I would read them all of their options from the list so I could generate their characters on the app for them, send them the character sheet PDF, etc. Then they would have to print a physical copy of a very complex character sheet (or more often) keep their tablet/phone/computer window open to see what many actions their character could perform.
I'm not saying there aren't benefits to playing a system like PF2 when compared to an OSR system, but speed of 1st level character build is certainly NOT one of them.
 

The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
To my mind, if you have tools, the question of how fast it is without tools is academic-- this wasn't really an argument either, its me mentioning how much the app helps and how nice it is. This also reminds me the developer of that app is working on a web version of that app, and recently made a lot of progress, so situations like that won't really come up. Its very practical in the sense that we use it, and its something I feel completely comfortable taking for granted, there are other sheets like Wanderer's Guide that are similar in function.

Adding to this as I think about it, part of the reason I would consider the question academic is because I usually see OSR speed presented as a tradeoff-- you gain easily-solved character death, and ease of use, in exchange for character building depth and customization, that's how the likes of Justin Alexander (of the Alexandrian) present it in their open table model. But if you can simply have it both ways, then the fact that it takes a tool just doesn't seem like a super meaningful downside, just a useful technology that solves a problem the same way refrigerators solve the perishability of certain kinds of food, or how fortified milk solves certain dietary problems.

It makes the impractical, practical in a way that doesn't have meaningful tradeoffs.
 
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The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
Honest question: is your audio file helpful if I don't have the app?

I also know there is no way I can make a character in under 4 minutes. It takes me longer than that to pick one feat!
Its not an audio guide, retreater just didn't believe me in the first place, so my audio file is just me doing it to demonstrate that it works. I highly recommend the app if you don't have it and are interested in Pathfinder 2e beyond dabblling in forum arguments. One of my players commented that I took too long and that 45 seconds was a more accurate estimate.

As for your speed, yeah I knew where to look for what I wanted, the time balloons as you consider and weigh options-- but then again, a new player would probably take quite a bit of time to find tables and read rules and so forth in an OSR (I've seen people entrenched in that community mention doing it for players to speed the process up.)
 
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Aldarc

Legend
I've heard a lot of people disagree with this. Now I am much more familiar with 5e, but when I tried to make a rogue in PF2 I eventually gave up because it was taking to long. So it is definitely a thing for some.

Please not I did not play 3e or PF1, so this type of highly involved character creation was new to me. I did make quire a few 4e characters though.
I agree that character creation takes longer in PF2 than in 5e. This is the natural result of more character options and decision points available. A 5e character is picking their stats, Class (and occasionally Sub-Class at level 1), Skills, Race, Sub-Race, and Background at level one. A PF2 character is picking their Ancestry, Heritage, Background, Class, Class Feat, Skills, and final round of stats, though picking their stats is integrated with each of these steps. However, I am not sure it is substantially longer, though I think part of the challenge is about possible rules interactions and both the desire/trepidation to build an effective character. The other issue, IMO, is that the feats/features are not necessarily packaged together as neatly as they are in 5e under subclasses. So there can be IMO some difficulty with focusing down when presented with options.

I was running my partner through a solo game of 5e D&D in the summer of 2019. They would be the leader of a small, rotating squad of NPCs, and I gave them a roster of one NPC of each class* to choose from for their squad. (As inspired by one of their favorite games: SWTOR.) The longest part of this process was developing character concepts that my partner would likely enjoy.

* Sans Bard, since my partner chose to play a Bard.

PF2 dropped not long thereafter. Out of my own curiosity and desire to play with "a new toy," I tried translating as many of those level 1 NPCs as I could from 5e D&D to PF2. It really didn't take terribly long at all, though I had to make concessions about tieflings, dragonborn, and warlocks. It was also quite nice because a number of character concepts I had translated more cleanly (from mind to mechanics) in PF2 than in 5e D&D.

Having seen this clarification….

I think that’s a fair point. In my limited experience with my group, all of my players spend way too much time window shopping before making a choice. However, I’m not sure how much that is due to worries about viability versus looking at the cool things they get at higher levels. I think if they started from a concept (versus browsing for inspiration), character creation would go more quickly for them.
Yeah, I agree that the overall features and options of a class can be overwhelming, particularly since they do not come pre-packaged in the way that 5e sub-classes do. But it helps IMHO to look at the low levels and simply "follow the fiction" of the character concept you want to play, though I will concede that sometimes people don't have a concept until they see the range of possible mechanics.

Everyone is different though. I've made several 5e characters, but I got frustrated with the one rogue I tried to make in PF2e, stopped making it and have yet to play a game of PF2e despite having the CRB, GMG, & Bestiary.*

Also, it doesn't necessarily take a massive difference for frustration to take root. Everyone's tolerance is different.

*EDIT: To clarify, the major reason I haven't played is the lack of finding a group and then the pandemic. If I found a group to play I would have finished my character eventually (I think).
I don't know if you or anyone here would be willing, but maybe it would help you if someone here would run you through an online game of PF2?
 

dave2008

Legend
I don't know if you or anyone here would be willing, but maybe it would help you if someone here would run you through an online game of PF2?
Possibly, but I have been intentionally avoiding online play. One of the reasons I play D&D is the face-to-face interaction. Though it has been a long time now since I've been able to do that. Also, I am sure once i get the hang of it and I know the various options better it will be easier and faster. My comment was more about a first time experience than any over arching trend
 

dave2008

Legend
Its not an audio guide, retreater just didn't believe me in the first place, so my audio file is just me doing it to demonstrate that it works. I highly recommend the app if you don't have it and are interested in Pathfinder 2e beyond dabblling in forum arguments. One of my players commented that I took too long and that 45 seconds was a more accurate estimate.

As for your speed, yeah I knew where to look for what I wanted, the time balloons as you consider and weigh options-- but then again, a new player would probably take quite a bit of time to find tables and read rules and so forth in an OSR (I've seen people entrenched in that community mention doing it for players to speed the process up.)
How long would it take to make a lvl 20 player? One thing my group (which at this point, other than me, is not willing to try PF2e) always does when trying out a new version of D&D is play an adventure a max level. With all the feat options it seem like really difficult task when I look at the CRB, does the app help?

PS I have an I-phone.
 

Aldarc

Legend
Possibly, but I have been intentionally avoiding online play. One of the reasons I play D&D is the face-to-face interaction. Though it has been a long time now since I've been able to do that. Also, I am sure once i get the hang of it and I know the various options better it will be easier and faster. My comment was more about a first time experience than any over arching trend
I also tend to shy away from online play as I play with friends. I agree with your assessment from the perspective of a first time experience. PF2 can be overwhelming, and Paizo could have presented things simpler and easier in that regard.
 

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