Pathfinder Beginner Box Review

Hello buckaroos! We return once again from the feet of the golem with a new PAIZO PRODUCT REVIEW! Today we’re looking at the new Pathfinder Beginner Box, Paizo’s latest in a hugely successful line of products for newcomers to our hobby. Spoiler alert: they’ve got another success on their hands. Let’s get into it!

Hello buckaroos! We return once again from the feet of the golem with a new PAIZO PRODUCT REVIEW! Today we’re looking at the new Pathfinder Beginner Box, Paizo’s latest in a hugely successful line of products for newcomers to our hobby. Spoiler alert: they’ve got another success on their hands. Let’s get into it!

PZO2106 PF2 Beginner Box 1200x675.jpg

First Impressions​

We start off this box review with an initial impression, and the initial impression is good! Bright, colorful, cheerful lettering, and a good heft—all things that say “good RPG thing must buy” to my primal dicegoblin brain. Upon first opening, we see a bag of dice, a bag of token bases, and a handful of small inserts culminating in a page that says READ THIS FIRST.

Of course I do not READ THAT FIRST! I huck the token bases to the side and take a gander at the dice. One each of d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d20, each in strong, single colors with clear lettering. I’m of mixed mind on these dice. On one hand, I appreciate a grab-bag approach to starter dice: my first starter set in a beginner box had mixed colors, and non-uniform dice to me makes them easier to share. That said, the bright primary colors evoke a handful of crayons, and while beginner boxes are in part meant to accommodate a younger audience and get them excited, I think the color-scheme may be skewing a bit young. The Crayola colors are easily forgiven as soon as you dig past the READ THIS FIRST page and you see the character sheets with delightful reference images for each of the dice—but we’ll get to the character sheets in a bit. I only have a few minor issues left with the dice. This is a bit snobbish, but I consider any dice set that doesn’t have two d10 and four d6 to be incomplete. Also, I’d prefer a resealable dice bag over the disposable one: my first set of dice from my beginner box is down to just five dice from the original ten because they spent their lives rattling around loose in their box.

Now, the inserts! A little postcard lets you know that there’s a custom Syrinscape playlist for the adventure contained within. Neat! The other postcards are player reference cards, which are about the best attempt at getting new players over the fairly steep Pathfinder learning curve I’ve seen yet. That said, there is a bit of a shock when you turn them over and are greeted with a wall of text. Finally, the READ THIS FIRST page is short, sweet, and to the point, laying out how to approach the Box as a solo player or with a group of players.

Character Sheets​

Below the READ THIS FIRST we have the character sheets, and here’s where the Box starts to show its hand a bit. You’re clearly meant to use this with a group of players, as it’s those pregenerated character folios which appear before the Hero’s Handbook which contains the solo adventure. That said, I have quite a lot of good things to say about these character sheets. Cover page features a name, a class, a huge splash art of the character’s portrait, and a quick description to help potential newcomers choose their playstyle.

Like the reference cards, the meat and potatoes of the character sheets can seem like an overwhelming barrage of information, but thankfully a solid half of that text is dedicated to explaining and leading a new player through the rather complicated process of understanding a Pathfinder character sheet. Truly excellent layout design is on display here—little coordinating lettered yellow circles lead the reader easily from explanation to relevant box, and the most-used sections of the sheet (AC, hit points, so on) are boxed out in red to stand out from the regular black. As I said before, there’s a handsome little sidebar displaying each of the dice available and their abbreviations—excellent! Also, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen this on a Pathfinder character sheet before, but these now have a space for personal pronouns! Finally, the layout artist gets a cheeky point from me for putting a few characters of character history on the back page of the folio—literal backstory.

As an aside: Wayne Reynolds' art maintains his high level of technical excellence, but there’s something repetitive about the characters' poses. This all stands in contrast to the cover art for the Hero’s Handbook, done by Ekaterina Burmak. The character posing here helps focus the eye on defining aspects of each character: Kyra’s pose pulls back and up into her holy symbol, shining forth with protecting energy against the lightning blast of the dragon. Valeros pushes forward into his shield, taking the brunt of the blast, emphasizing his role on the front line and the use of his shield in his playstyle. And then, off to the side, we see Merisiel darting in, lines almost blurred with speed, unseen by the dragon, dagger darting forward to the exposed neck. Sure, Wayne’s art is technically more accurate to the adventure—the dragon is green, and on top of one of the massive mushrooms in its cavern—but I definitely like Ekaterina’s art more.

The Hero's Handbook​

The Hero's Handbook kicks off with a solo adventure, a delightful little romp through a quick little cavern with a few nasties and quite a bit of treasure. My advice for those taking their own crack at it? Fortune favors the bold. The rest of the Hero’s Handbook concerns itself with expertly navigating a new player through the process of making a new character, complete with the colorful lettered circles that connect to spaces on the provided empty character sheets. Also, the Hero’s Handbook FINALLY does away with the difference between ability scores and ability modifiers—thank goodness.

The Game Master's Guide​

Like the Hero’s Handbook, the Game Master’s Guide kicks off with an adventure. As a GM and as an adventure designer, I do appreciate the way the adventure designers generally nail one-page sections for each room or encounter. Like with the solo adventure, there’s excellent escalation of challenges: first simple combat, then a combat with some saving throws, then skill checks, puzzles, persistent damage, and some undead to let the cleric shine in an offensive moment. Other nice spots of design include magical boon rewards and defending monsters getting some home turf advantages. Also, it must be said: this features a dragon in a dungeon. Points again!

My only real issues with the adventure was the tired artifact of XP—if we’re going to be doing away with ability scores and modifiers, just take the leap to milestone XP, especially if the Game Master’s Guide later insists all players advance equally anyway—and the climactic encounters seem a little lackluster. Perhaps it’s just a glut of excellent encounter design I’ve seen from other places lately, but I tend to expect a little more action from the environment. That said, this is an introductory adventure, and I wouldn’t want to throw a new GM too far into the deep end.

The rest of the Game Master’s Guide is simply excellent material for a new GM learning the ropes, and indeed is a fantastic refresher for experienced GMs wanting a straightforward and concise presentation of the fundamentals of running tabletop games in general and Pathfinder 2E in specific. My only issue with this section is that there's more ogre art in line with their supposed foul and flabby nature. I can tell this was a deliberate choice because much of the rest of the monster art, specifically that of the orcs, is lifted directly from the Bestiary. I will keep my ogres beautiful and beefy, thank you very much.

The Rest​

What’s left? Well, we have the fold-out maps, which are excellent and which absolutely require a full table to use properly. There are tokens for every monster that appears in the Game Master’s Guide, and even tokens for every ancestry/gender/class combination possible with the limited options available in the Hero’s Handbook. Also, some tokens with action and reaction symbols on them for use with the relevant spaces on the included character sheets.

In summary, the Pathfinder Beginner Box is an excellent introduction to the game for new solo players and new groups, and an excellent reintroduction for veterans looking for a refresh on the game’s core identity. Well worth the investment and guaranteed to be a hit at your table.
 

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Ben Reece

Ben Reece

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
Character creation speed in the full game is going to vary significantly from person to person and what you are trying to do. If you are fairly decisive and sit down with either a fairly concrete idea of what you want to play or just want to create a fairly vanilla martial character you can create even fairly high level characters in 20-30 minutes. The choices are fairly well banded in each class. Rogues and Investigators will take slightly longer because they get so many skill feats.

However if you are less decisive or want to get into things like archetypes you can spend hours fine tuning a character.

I recommend trying to be as decisive as possible when creating PF2 characters. There's a lot less at stake than in some other games. The vast majority of pure player power is going to come from your class chassis. The stakes of getting right or wrong are more about building a toolbox of stuff to use in play and what kind of decisions you want to be making. Keep in mind that retraining will allow you to replace stuff that does not work for you if you have sufficient downtime.

One thing I will say is that stepping into high level characters you have no direct play experience can be fairly difficult. Almost everything in the game is designed for active use in play and the options you pick up as you level tend to be situational. A novice player playing a 20th level character is going to be far less effective than an experienced hand. This has always been the case with spellcasters, but in PF2 it is just as true with martial characters. You can tune encounters accordingly as a GM, but it is something to keep in mind.
 

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ronaldsf

Explorer
How long would it take to make a lvl 20 player? One thing my group (which at this point, other than me, is not willing to try PF2e) always does when trying out a new version of D&D is play an adventure a max level. With all the feat options it seem like really difficult task when I look at the CRB, does the app help?

PS I have an I-phone.
After having run a Level 20 short adventure with players who had several months of experience with PF2, I will say that there is a LOT to choose compared to other systems:
-Ancestry, Heritage, 5 ancestry feats
-Background
-Class (and subclass if any)
-10 or 11 class feats
-5 general feats
-10 Skill increases
-10 skill feats
-4 ability boosts each at L1, L5, L10, L15, L20
-6 starting magic items plus 20,000gp extra to spend
-Spellcasters getting ~33 cantrips+spells to use

But it would still be an academic exercise, because actually PLAYING a Level 20 character is what tripped players up. There were many, many options for their 3 actions and they only touched perhaps 30 percent of them in the course of 7 sessions. And there were many feats that modified how their basic abilities worked and/or triggered in response to events. They just didn't have the opportunity to organically "learn" their character over the course of 20 levels of play, and the fact that you grow horizontally with more options as you level up in PF2 (versus just getting numerical boosts and enhancements to your main actions/activities) means that you have a wealth of options but don't really know how to use them. And if you choose to carefully consider what you do every turn, play slows down to a crawl if you lack those 20 levels of actual play experience.

Here is a link to my personal GM "cheat sheet" to manage that adventure

I'm not sure what you'd want to get out of making Level 20 characters when learning a new system: you enjoy character creation? Or you want to see what high-level play looks like perhaps? Quick character creation is not what you'll get with PF2! The strength of PF2 in this regard is that the game stays balanced and tense even into high levels.
 
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dave2008

Legend
I'm not sure what you'd want to get out of making Level 20 characters when learning a new system: you enjoy character creation? Or you want to see what high-level play looks like perhaps? Quick character creation is not what you'll get with PF2! The strength of PF2 in this regard is that the game stays balanced and tense even into high levels.
We usually give the top end a shot after we are between lvl 5-10 in our main campaign. As it took us 4 yrs to get to lvl 10 in 5e, we generally have a good mastery of the system at that point.
 

The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
We usually give the top end a shot after we are between lvl 5-10 in our main campaign. As it took us 4 yrs to get to lvl 10 in 5e, we generally have a good mastery of the system at that point.
Sorry I forgot to get back to you before, I actually made a level 19 Monk recently for a playtest, I did it over like two sittings, but I don't think I really spent more than an hour and some change on it-- though I've looked at the options I wanted to use in the past, and kind of came up with basic plan in my head (most of the hour being looking at specific feats to decide how to fill the gaps in that plan, while helping another player by answering their rules questions.) It was also a weird build (I used the Ancestral Weaponry Monk feat to do One Inch Punches with an Elven Curve Blade, and also wanted to fit in the Shadowdancer Archetype in free Archetype, but had no idea what to take for the prior archetype-- But note that this is a variant rule that forces you to take a bunch of extra feats, none of which are actually a part of your class.)
 

The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
Also, I suppose this might be a neat idea, @dave2008 and anyone else who feels like they need one to try the system, would you like me to run you a little introduction oneshot? I just set up a standing newbie game setup for some of my server's newbies, and I could probably run it for you if we have a couple of people interested in trying out the game, I'd be open to it if you want to try the app, but I actually have built in pregens you could use to hop in (more of those 5ish minute ones.)
 

dave2008

Legend
Also, I suppose this might be a neat idea, @dave2008 and anyone else who feels like they need one to try the system, would you like me to run you a little introduction oneshot? I just set up a standing newbie game setup for some of my server's newbies, and I could probably run it for you if we have a couple of people interested in trying out the game, I'd be open to it if you want to try the app, but I actually have built in pregens you could use to hop in (more of those 5ish minute ones.)
Maybe, I'm not ready to do online gaming yet - but I'm getting there!
 


Steel_Wind

Legend
I liked Menace under Otari as an introduction to PF2 mechanics. The adventure itself is kind of poor, but I changed elements of that, too.

I added an initial premise that the fish was missing because Tamily recently inherited the Fishery from her Mom who tragically died from a lingering illness, after her Father and 3 brothers died at sea last fall. So Tamily thinks that her uncle (her father's brother) is somehow behind all of this as part of a move to take over the Fishery from her. The PCs should be going down to the basement to investigate a theft and family skullduggery - not expecting a fight with monsters in the basement.

This also explains why Tamily has these healing potions on hand to give to her friends ("These were for my Mom, before she... well... you can have them now.")

The entrance into the basement is not so easy to see in the dark. I narrowed it. I also have 3 rats in the basement, hiding, so that the first battle is not fought under the constrained conditions of that tunnel.

I also changed the Kobolds and made them more sympathetic -- and so I can tie Menace Under Otari as a prologue for Abomination Vaults, Vol 1.

The Kobolds in Menace under Otari are all that is left of the tribe that used to occupy the 2nd level of the Ruins of Gauntlight, until they were displaced by the Morlocks. The surviving remnants of that tribe fled the Ruins and -- through the tunnel -- ended up in the Dungeon level 2 in Menace Under Otari.

Losing much of the tribe including its former chieftain, the new "Boss Zolgran" did what she could to keep the tribe together. Their morale was very low and the tribe was on the verge of scattering, so she gave them a focus to keep them all together by contriving to steal an egg from the River Drake in Ruins of Gauntlight. The egg provided focus and purpose to the displaced Kobolds. Then, the egg hatched. Not being a true dragon, they were quite unprepared for the rapacious appetite of hatchling River Drakes for fish. River Drakes don't live nearly so long as a true Dragon, but they grow much, much faster when initially hatched -- and they eat a LOT of fish. Zolgran ordered her warriors to steal fish from Tamily just to keep the River Drake alive, but she wanted to keep their presence secret form the Humans above in Otari. (The history of humans vs kobolds in Otari is a grim one and Zolgran's tribe, descendants of the Stonescales, know it.) So the kobolds used a small tunnel to get into the Fishery basement - one they had to crawl through and which, with a fish barrel moved in front of it, might be overlooked. At least, so Zolgran hoped.

The rats pushed the crate out of the way, ate even more of the fish, and spoiled Zolgran's plans. And here we are.

The PCs don't have to fight the now young River Drake at area 19 and can stay at level 1 at the end of Menace in order to go to Gauntlight to follow up on what the Kobolds tell them about it if they can manage to defuse the final confrontation with the Kobolds into something less violent. The tunnel at area 19 leads to the surface just south of the Ruins of Gauntlight map in the swamp. The tunnel at area 15 leads to the tunnel on Level Three of the Ruins of Gauntlight as detailed in Vol 1 of that Adventure Path. That tunnel is scavenged by a Gibbering Mouther, and so that way lies madness and death.

You can substitute out the Xulgath in Area 15 for more kobolds as that makes far more sense. The rock wall was put at Area 15 by the Kobolds who feared the Mouther getting into their lair and whispering to them as they slept. The kobolds who are at the position of the Xulgaths in 15 are there to guard the lair from the tunnel and the Mouther. They aren't paying attention to what is going on behind them.

These changes should point the PCs to take the tunnel to Gauntlight at Area 19 and emerge in the swamp, instead of the route that will result in their all-but-certain-deaths at level 1 by taking the tunnel from Area 15 to level 3 of the Abomination Vaults.

tl;dr: Remove the fight with the Hatchling Green Dragon -- now a Young River Drake -- at Area 19. The PCs do not advance to level 2. Let them achieve that after completing level 1 of Ruins of Gauntlight using milestone levelling.

The PCs contact with Wrin and Moriblint and others in Otari who have concerns about missing people who have ended up there (From Crook's Nook and the Rowdy Crawfish) can be added later, or through roleplaying opportunities during any investigation should the PCs go for the red herring of Tamily's uncle stealing the fish.

The map change to the tunnel [ see other post below] shows a small tunnel that is "discovered" through investigation: Begin the fight with one rat behind the barrel in the small tunnel, 3 more in the room (2 hiding under the stairs).
 
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Steel_Wind

Legend
At first level, you can go from fully healed to instantly dead from the GM just rolling a single '20' on her attack dice.

What are you talking about here? That's simply not true.

The most any GM can do to a PF2 character at any level is drop them to Dying 2. (assuming they crit which puts the PC to Dying 2; any other lethal result which puts the PC to 0 hits (or less) results in only "Dying 1").

A Recovery check for a Dying 2 is then required on the PCs turn: Roll a 1 or 2, the PC dies. Any other result, the PC maybe gets worse, or better, or even loses the dying condition. And that's before we consider the use of a Hero Point for a Heroic Recovery, which is a default rule and assumption in the game using the full ruleset.

I don't think you understand the new Death and Dying rules in PF2. They are actually one of the better new mechanics in PF2.
 
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Steel_Wind

Legend
We noticed something in the combats with PF2e, we consistently would miss...a LOT. Looking at the math, most of the Characters will need a 12 or better to hit, which means that you are going to be missing 3 out of every 5 rolls.

The Rats on the other hand have a +7 to hit, and will hit even the pre-generated characters (which had a HIGHER AC in general than the ones we created) on an 11 or better. For the others you are looking at a roll of 8 and 9 to hit. (for us, the rats needed an 8 to hit most of us, with one being a 6 or 7 (can't recall off the top of my head) but that one was normally in the back). This mean that the odds of the rats hitting us were exactly the same odds as us missing them, and as we would miss more than they would hit, they would hit us more than they would miss us. (PS: and I mentioned it below, that yes, it was also easier for them to crit us. The bonus they have to hit is basically an unfair advantage in many ways in that first fight).

What EVER are you talking about? A competent 1st level PF2 character starts with a +7 to hit, whether that is a melee attack or a spell attack. The rats are AC 15. The PCs hit on an 8 or better. That means the PCs misses 35% of the time and hits 65% of the time. Hell 15% of the time the PC will CRIT, too.

The rats have 8 hit points. A well armed fighter with a bastard blade will do an average of 10.5 hit points per strike, killing a rat in one blow. A lesser martial weapon like a longsword is still going to do 8.5 points (killing the rat on the first swing, about 2/3rds of the time, on average).

And that's BEFORE we consider the Wizard. The BB doesn't provide the PF2 Wizard with his best cantrip spell available in the main rules (Electric Arc), though the full rules do of course. For anybody running this with the full rules set, Electric Arc cannot miss. For an Int 18 Wizard (why are you playing anything else?) that will do 1d4+4 to 2 rats, 6.5 points on average, with a basic Reflex save of DC17 to only take half damage; (the rat has a +7 to Ref) so one of those rats is likely to fail and be crippled where any subsequent hit by anybody for any amount of damage is certain to kill it, while the other is only slightly better off.) Or the Wizard just come back on Round 2 and finishes em off with a second Electric Arc.

As it stands, confined just to the BB options, the Wizard will use either Acid Splash or Ray of Frost if he or she wants to preserve the 1st level spell. Again, a spell attack of +7 against AC15, missing only 35% of the time, doing 6.5 points to the target with a cantrip. The second cantrip cast will kill the rat.

Your entire premise here of dissing the first encounter in Menace Under Otari seems not only off, but purposefully off.

Indeed, I changed the encounter -- and the map -- to increase the challenge of it for my players. As written, with the full rules and being played by anybody who has played an RPG before (let alone PF2), it's far too weak.
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