Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder First Print Run Sold Out

[JoeGKushner]

Like I've said before, I wish them all the luck in the world. They're a good company full of good people, who just happen to be making a game I'm not interested in playing right now. Just because I'm not their customer doesn't mean I can't appreciate how good they are at what they do.


Ditto.

-O

Ah, but I am a customer! I've got a few of their planet stories books and intend to get the Pathfinder RPG for read1ing purposes if nothing else. In addition, I absolutely love their various 'Revisited' books (Dragons, Classics, and Dungeon Denizens). All useful with any edition of D&D.

 

[Umbran]

Why are you so bothered about people wanting to know the print run?

I posit that it reminds folks how how large a sense of entitlement gamers have, especially to business information. Most businesses don't release such data, period. As consumers, it is none of our business.

Releasing such data opens up their business decisions to critique by duffers out here who don't actually have enough information to come to sound conclusions.

So, basically, what they gain by holding back the numbers isn't a real competitive edge, but some bloody peace and quiet where they don't have to spend time and effort defending their choices (and by extension their corporate good name) to the public at large.

 

[Quantarum]

I'm not surprised at all. I'm playing 4E now and loving it, but I've kept the subscriptions to Pathfinder and added a subscription to the RPG books. The quality Paizo puts into it's products make them a joy to read and a huge inspiration no matter what you're playing.
Well done and bravo!

-Q.

 

[Jack99]

I posit that it reminds folks how how large a sense of entitlement gamers have, especially to business information. Most businesses don't release such data, period. As consumers, it is none of our business.

Releasing such data opens up their business decisions to critique by duffers out here who don't actually have enough information to come to sound conclusions.

So, basically, what they gain by holding back the numbers isn't a real competitive edge, but some bloody peace and quiet where they don't have to spend time and effort defending their choices (and by extension their corporate good name) to the public at large.

Lisa said the same the other day, just better

I will say this, I think that most customers would be absolutely floored by how little some products sell and how much other products sell. There is a very, very large discrepancy between products that are great sellers and those that aren't. And they can vary from month to month. Products that you might think are best sellers might be losing a bunch of money and other that seem like dogs could be really profitable.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter how many copies a book sells. What matters is a) if customers like the book and buy it and b) the company making the book can stay in business selling whatever number of books they can sell.

I'll tell you a little story about when I used to work in magazines (not anything to do with WotC or D&D or Dragon or Dungeon). We had an issue that sold 100,000 copies and one that sold 62,000 copies. Which one was the success story? Yep, the 62,000 copies sold one. Because the one we sold 100,000 copies cost us a heck of a lot more to make because it had a giant poster in it and it had to be polybagged and there was additional shipping costs and art costs, etc., etc. So if you were just told the sales, you might jump to the wrong conclusion.

Bottom line is that only WotC really knows whether 4e is a success for them or not. And only Paizo can decide what is successful or not for us. Our two companies have different expectations and different owner's needs and different cost structures, and thus different measurements of success. How will you know if a company is successful? They will continue to make more products for a line and provide more and more support for the line. If that happens, then it is a success. Trust me, public companies don't continue to throw money into a black hole for long. Only successful lines...

 

[ggroy]

What competition would that be, and how would this data help the competition or hurt Paizo in any way?

Seriously, can anyone spell out a hypothetical situation where knowing the print run of the first run of Pathfinder would meaningfully help the competition or hurt Paizo?

The competitors can be in other sectors, such as video games, books, etc ...

The competitive advantage is in maintaining a perception of "mystique" in the eyes of consumers and general public. Things aren't quite as interesting if they're perceived to be "mundane" or "ordinary". In a sector highly dependent on people's disposable income, one has to attract attention in some form or another. Being mundane or ordinary, may not do the trick.

Other businesses where this has been commonly done in the past, is in marketing rock stars, movie stars, etc ... and celebrities in general as being "larger than life". It doesn't always work out that way in the end, but that doesn't stop marketers from doing it in their attempts to gain an edge over other competitors.

The competition may very well be for people's attentions and eyes, in a world where many people's attention spans are very short. Mundane and ordinary may very well be drowned out by the "noise" of everything else being advertised as "larger than life".

 

[GMSkarka]

What competition would that be, and how would this data help the competition or hurt Paizo in any way?

Seriously, can anyone spell out a hypothetical situation where knowing the print run of the first run of Pathfinder would meaningfully help the competition or hurt Paizo?

With all due respect, now you're not only claiming that you're somehow entitled to the information, but you also want somebody to sit you down and explain market economics, positioning strategy, the law of supply and demand, and a step-by-step explanation of how production, solicitation and distribution works in the game industry. (Which are all of the subjects that you would need to understand for your question to be answered.)

Are you beginning to see why this might be a tad unreasonable on your part?

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

I personally want to commend my friends at Paizo for their hard work on the Pathfinder RPG (and the entire Pathfinder line) and congratulate them for this fantastic success. I’ve worked with, gamed with, and spent nights drinking and laughing with many of those folks, and they deserve all the success in the world. They are true geeks who care deeply for RPGs, fantasy, and D&D.

Hopefully this means I'll get to spend more time playing games or hanging out with Jason, Erik and company now that this monster's out the door. Right?

I certainly hope so. I believe you and I have a 40K rematch on schedule to settle our tie. My big concern is whether to bring Tyranids or Necrons to the field.

Hmmm....

OT: Thanks for all the support everybody. This has been a great time for us. Stop by the booth at GenCon to see the insanity.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

 

[Mistwell]

I posit that it reminds folks how how large a sense of entitlement gamers have, especially to business information. Most businesses don't release such data, period. As consumers, it is none of our business.

It's not our business, but it's still an interesting topic for many here. Nobody here is saying they are entitled to the answer. So if it reminds you of that sense, it's not coming from the people who are bothering you.

That most businesses do not release said data was already addressed. That's not actually an answer, it's a restatement of the question, and a hasty one at that. Unless you support the answer of "because".

Releasing such data opens up their business decisions to critique by duffers out here who don't actually have enough information to come to sound conclusions.

So, basically, what they gain by holding back the numbers isn't a real competitive edge, but some bloody peace and quiet where they don't have to spend time and effort defending their choices (and by extension their corporate good name) to the public at large.

You think releasing the number in a firm way as opposed to the soft way they have done so already would cause more critique than now? I don't.

In fact, I think by having fans who demanded a number from WOTC and Paizo not speaking out about it then, and then teasing out a range of numbers when their product comes out rather than offering a firm number, they are causing much more of a stir than they would if they just released the number.

Seriously, why would, say, them announcing 35,000 rather than them saying "between 10,000 and 50,000" cause more of a stir?

I'm still waiting for anyone to offer an actual good reason for not announcing a firm number for the print run. So far, most answers seem to be "because it's not traditionally done". How is that a good answer?

And again, why does asking this question bother people, and why would it take away from enjoyment of the news itself?

 

[Azgulor]

I posit that it reminds folks how how large a sense of entitlement gamers have, especially to business information. Most businesses don't release such data, period. As consumers, it is none of our business.

Releasing such data opens up their business decisions to critique by duffers out here who don't actually have enough information to come to sound conclusions.

A-frakkin-men. As if the sense of entitlement wasn't bad enough, the irresistable compulsion to display their ignorance about companies in general, and RPG companies in particular, continues to baffle me. I keep envisioning that for the "entitled gamer", if reality bit them in the rear by providing an actual meeting with a RPG owner/officer/executive it'd go something like this:

Company CEO: "Well, I've been running this successful company for 5 years, I've got a MBA, and a degree in economics, so I think I know what I'm talking about. What you're asking for really isn't any of your business."

Entitled Gamer: "Oh yeah, man? Don't give me that corporate double-speak!! I've GMed Shadowrun! So I know all about the business world! What're you trying to hide!?!?"

That nonsense aside, congratulations to the Paizo team! (As I anxiously count the minutes until my pre-order arrives...)

 

[ggroy]

And again, why does asking this question bother people, and why would it take away from enjoyment of the news itself?

Isn't the question a bit like asking someone what their yearly salary is?

It may be related to the notion in this society, where it is taboo to ask somebody what their income is.