Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder: How Should it Handle High Level Dependence on Magic Items, ie the "Big 6"

[joethelawyer]

YOU CAN VOTE ON MULTIPLE OPTIONS


Been reading the High Level discussion over t Pathfinder, and put up a poll and start a discussion over here too.

Big 6 = rings of protection, amulets of natural armor, cloaks of resistance, magic weapons, magic armor, and stat boosting gear (gauntlets of ogre power, circlets of intelligence, et cetera).

What we did is say that ability score increasing items do not exist. That usually frees up 6 slots at least that can be used for other more interesting items.

We end up having weaker characters than would otherwise be the case, but weakness is a relative thing. We don't use the CR charts to determine encounters, and the DM give XP when he feels like it as the story dictates, not based on what level we were as compared to the stuff we killed. So what if we fight a bad guy at 10th level, with our minimal stat increasing gear, that's technically a CR 7 monster, that a geared up 7th level group would also be challenged by? It's still a challenge to us, and still fun.

We also houseruled out of existence spells which give a bonus to ability scores. Bull's Strength, etc., don't exist.

As for saves, we decreed that no items can give a bonus to all saves. An item can give a bonus to either fortitude, will, or reflex. Not more than one. We also said that characters can get no more than a cumulative +5 to all saves for every 20 levels. so a 19th level guy can have +1 reflex, +2 fort, +2 will. Thats it. Or some combination that adds to +5. And we also houseruled out of existence buff spells for saves.

We also made caster level part of the saving throw formula for spell DC's. It makes no sense to me that a 30th level wizard's charm person cast on a 0 level peasant would not be more powerful than a 1st level wizard's charm person on the same peasant. Especially since we took away the source of the ability point stat bonus in a magic item. Even still, I don't think intelligence should count as much towards spell DC's as the raw power that a 30th level wizard has behind it, due to his being a 30th level wizard.

We use:
Spell DC's: 10 + spell level + attribute bonus, plus 1 for every 3 caster levels.

Also we don't allow magic stores, and for any item above 5000 gp in market value, if a caster creates it he loses 1 constitution point permanently.



my 2 cents...

 

[joethelawyer]

I realize that I forgot to include

21. Something not on this list, describe below.


Feel free to do so.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The idea that always works well for my 3e games is just to make them part and parcel of levelling up automatically -- make them organic parts of the characters rather than things DMs have to hand out.

 

[joethelawyer]

The idea that always works well for my 3e games is just to make them part and parcel of levelling up automatically -- make them organic parts of the characters rather than things DMs have to hand out.

Plus, its so boring to have to deal with items or spells whose sole purpose is to give a plus to something. Where's the fantasy magic in that? Unique, special items are what makes the magic aspect of this game fun. Things like Bag of Beans, Wand of a Wonder, that Rod with all the buttons and gizmos, are what really made 1e magic items fun. That along with the rareness of items, and extreme difficulty in creating them, made them exotically wondrous.

 

[barbaraloqw]

vote for 5, you will cry longer if you lost them

 

[EroGaki]

I voted for 7. You can't really eliminate the "Big 6" from the game without rendering high level characters helpless. The system (Pathfinder, 3E) is built around the characters getting these items to boost the characters effectiveness. For example, without stat boosting items, the spell casters will run out of spells even quicker (the 15 minute adventure day will become the 3 minute adventure day), and the monsters will have an even easier time making their saving throws.

Option 7 is the best in my mind. Adding the Big 6 into character advancement will allow the characters to still be capable, and at the same time free up valuable items slots for magical items that are actually "magical."

But eliminating the Big 6 will cause big problems for the game, seeing as you would have to redesign monsters and encounters to compensate for the weakened characters.

 

[ronin]

I am going to try something I've never done before but seems to make sense. I am not going to award XP and level the party up when I feel they should level. That way I can throw whatever I want at the group without worrying about how much XP they'll get. I'll still use CR/EL as a guideline to what the group can handle but that's about it.

Another bonus is that I'll also be able to modify creatures however I choose without worrying about the additional XP the party will get. Sort of the approach in 4e- just give the creature abilities it can use during the encounter. Who cares if you spend every skill point or have an extra feat- make it an appropriate challenge for the party and save the extra time to work on other aspects of the campaign.

 

[joethelawyer]

I am going to try something I've never done before but seems to make sense. I am not going to award XP and level the party up when I feel they should level. That way I can throw whatever I want at the group without worrying about how much XP they'll get. I'll still use CR/EL as a guideline to what the group can handle but that's about it.

Another bonus is that I'll also be able to modify creatures however I choose without worrying about the additional XP the party will get. Sort of the approach in 4e- just give the creature abilities it can use during the encounter. Who cares if you spend every skill point or have an extra feat- make it an appropriate challenge for the party and save the extra time to work on other aspects of the campaign.

thats how we play. it works well.

 

[Duskblade]

I don't know why, but I'm not allowed to vote on the poll.

My answer is to get rid of the ability score buff spells. Thats what I'm going to do with the Pathfinder world I'm currently homebrewing.

 

[Aus_Snow]

21. Rewrite or recalculate whole sections of the system, so that they're not assumed.

Partly, as per Kamikaze Midget. Did more or less that, as of some point years ago.