Pathfinder OGL/3.5 RPG system from Paizo

[nutluck]

I'm not trying to pile on here, but I think the problem is that you haven't got enough information, not that you're a dissenting voice. Before today, the Pathfinder RPG market was 0, because there was no Pathfinder RPG. Now they've got a potential market of thousands. If the Pathfinder RPG core book gets 10% of the 3.5-playing crowd, it'll probably be the best selling 3rd-party OGL book ever.

The fact is, there's a market for "nostalgic" game editions -and- D&D variant games - Hackmaster, OSRIC, C&C, Arcana Evolved, Spycraft, Thieves' World, Black Company, Conan - all have proven that. Pathfinder could be both, AND a continuation of 3.5, an existing and popular ruleset. The 3rd-party market is already shrinking, and 4e is going to shrink it further. That's an opportunity for Paizo. Creating a "Pathfinder" license could also allow them to leverage the OGL into garnering support from other companies - Pathfinder Conan, for instance.

I was going to comment on this as well. I am not sure if their sales will be better or not. But lets say their is 100K people that buy 3e stuff or did. Lets say Paizo sold to 10% of them or 10k. If when 4e comes out and keeps 80% of the players, the other 20% most of them will likely stick with 3.x like those that didn't move on from 1e and 2e found C&C and hackmaster ect to play. So if even most of that 20% jumps on with Paizo they will have a big increase. If even half does they break even.

I am not saying they will or won't make more money. Only that they use to have a small piece of a very big pie and now they will have a huge piece of a much smaller pie. With the OGL and them keeping Pathfinder RPG OGL. If they can get some other companies to join up. Like say TrueD20 adapts or Conan D20 does, or even just all those little 3e companies out their that make splat books. If the GSL is to restrictive it gives all the other current 3e companies big and small a choice.

Plus I think things are different and not like the switch from 2e to 3e was. 2e was dieing off, other companies like White Wolf was storming the gates. 3e came out and retook things back and became the big boy on the block again. This time while some people have left 3e I think the numbers are MUCH smaller than those that had left 2e and I think those unhappy with 3e is smaller. Most of them don't have major complaints about 3e but a lot of little ones which they new game might fix.

I just wanted to point all this out. In the end i don't know if I will play Pathfinder RPG, 4e or go back to Rolemaster or something. But I will try both and see and either way i will almost for sure keep buying Paizo stuff and adopting it to which ever system I play. As long as it is good products, this move makes me like them as a company even more than I did even if I don't end up playing Pathfinder RPG.

 

[jmucchiello]

Paizo monthly "Dragon/Dungeon" magazines.

Well, they can't call them that. Maybe... Finder Magazine and Path Magazine.

It'd be really cool if they reached out to 3rd party pubs.

 

[Treebore]

Well, they can't call them that. Maybe... Finder Magazine and Path Magazine.

It'd be really cool if they reached out to 3rd party pubs.

I would be all over that!! I HATE the digital initiative, I want my print!

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Well, they can't call them that. Maybe... Finder Magazine and Path Magazine.

How about Dragonz and Dungeonz?

It'd be really cool if they reached out to 3rd party pubs.

I'm hoping there is other 3rd party support myself. That would be awesome.

 

[JDragon]

GO PAIZO!!!!

I like many other here have been on the fence about 4E for most of the time its existence has been known.

I'm not sure yet as I have just barely scratched the Alpha Rules PDF, but this already has a much higher interest level for me that 4e has since it was announced.

I love the fact that they are going to be doing the open play test, this will really let the people that care about the game get themselves heard. (Sorry I just don't really think WotC has done that so far.)

I'll shortly be sending an email to most everyone I know that plays D&D with the news, just in case they have not seen it.

GO PAIZO!!!!

JD

 

[Zinegata]

While I haven't decided whether or not I'd switch 4E or Pathfinder (or stick to 3.5 ), I must say this was a shrewd and gutsy move on Paizo's part.

I think you may have just cornered a good, strong niche for yourselves.

 

[Dragonblade]

So in the space of a year, WOTC's biggest ally becomes WOTC's biggest competitor, and they literally have only themselves to blame (since they put Paizo out of the magazine business AND failed to cut them in on 4E in a timely fashion). Paizo's golem logo is particularly apt today, because Wizards has created a monster that threatens to run amok over their business.

Why do I feel like someone in Renton is going to get fired over this? Probably someone we've never heard of, but SOMEONE.

If you think that Paizo is a competitor to WotC, you're fooling yourself. The majority of Paizo's customers will come from the anti-4e minority who were never really going to 4e anyway, and the rest of their customers will come from cannibalizing customers from C&C, True20, Arcana Evolved, Conan d20, and other D&D clones.

Paizo will probably do quite alright for themselves. I expect them to dominate the d20 OGL market, although Crafty Games upcoming Fantasy Craft may have something to say about that.

But seriously impacting WotC's business? I don't think so. Thats like saying a high school football team can play in the NFL. WotC has the name, the marketing power, and the brand on their side. Plus I have played 4e and I know it rocks. The problem with Pathfinder is I have played 3.5 and I know it doesn't.

 

[drjones]

I'm wondering about the open playtesting. In particular I am wondering how thankless the job of being the guy who decides on the rules when a peek at many of the conversations on this and paizos boards shows that there is a very loud argumentative group of true fans who all seem to want different things from the game.

I guess the idea of a democracy of Comic Book Guys seems like it might come up with a better game than one guy working towards a deadline but would you really want to be the one moderating that discussion? And then to have to take the hate when you go with Camp A instead of Camp B on gnome ear size or whatever.

 

[Zelligars Apprentice]

I just want to add my voice to the loud cheering going on here for Paizo. I think this is great news, and a shrewd business move. I love the idea of an open playtest (and will post my ideas and comments in the appropriate Paizo boards soon enough), but the execution may be a headache (EDIT: As was eloquently pointed out by the above post). We'll see.

Thanks for giving us the choice, Paizo! You are my heroes!

 

[jdrakeh]

I'm wondering about the open playtesting. In particular I am wondering how thankless the job of being the guy who decides on the rules when a peek at many of the conversations on this and paizos boards shows that there is a very loud argumentative group of true fans who all seem to want different things from the game.

I guess the idea of a democracy of Comic Book Guys seems like it might come up with a better game than one guy working towards a deadline but would you really want to be the one moderating that discussion? And then to have to take the hate when you go with Camp A instead of Camp B on gnome ear size or whatever.

Playtesting isn't quite what many fans think it is. It's testing, not free reign to get What You Like slotted into a work already in progress. As open software tests are largely about reporting bugs in already existant processes, so are RPG tets more about identifying non-functional rules than rules that the tester doesn't personally like.

As somebody who has screened playtest forms, I can confirm that many "Gut all of this and replace it with my personal houserules!" reports go right in the trash. Not all such reports, mind you, but many. By the time a playtest is started, a system is off the drawing board -- the focus is on refining what already exists, not going back to square one.

Going back to square one can happen, though there has to be an overwhelming amount of nearly identical feedback received in order to get anything back on the drawing board after it has moved past that stage of design.

YMMV, of course.