Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Paladin help

[NewJeffCT]

OK, I'm hoping to start a game soon and I'll be running Pathfinder for the first time, and sticking to the Core rules.

I have one guy that is new to face-to-face RPGs and he's playing a half-elf paladin. I haven't heard his background yet, but he did say they'd he's going to take the "pass for human" feat since it fits his background.

I gave the players a pretty generous point buy - 30 points on a one-for-one basis, with a base stat of 8. So, you could get two 18s, a 12 and three 10s, if you wanted. Or, five 14s and an 8. (Not counting the racial adjustment)

His original allocation was STR 12, INT 14, WIS 10, DEX 10, CON 14 and CHA 18, with the half-elf bonus going to CHA, so he'd start with a 20 CHA. (Since I'm an old school gamer, I'd put 18 in STR and CHA, 12 in CON and 10s in INT, WIS and DEX)

Since I'm going to be the DM, I don't want to dictate to him what he should pick for stats or feats, but I can hopefully point him to this thread for some advice, since he is new to the game. (Plus, I'm still learning the PF rules myself, so I don't know all the details of each class yet, either)

Thanks

 

[Cadence]

There's a pretty extensive thread from last year on Paizo about creating a new Paladin (granted its human, but there seems to be lots of general advice): http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n2k4?Building-my-first-pathfinder-Paladin-Any .

The recent thread here http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-pa...starting-level-10-help-pls-d.html#post6031198 was specifically asking about a level 10 paladin for a first time player, but a few of the responses addressed paladins in general.

 

[N'raac]

I gave the players a pretty generous point buy - 30 points on a one-for-one basis, with a base stat of 8. So, you could get two 18s, a 12 and three 10s, if you wanted. Or, five 14s and an 8. (Not counting the racial adjustment)

His original allocation was STR 12, INT 14, WIS 10, DEX 10, CON 14 and CHA 18, with the half-elf bonus going to CHA, so he'd start with a 20 CHA. (Since I'm an old school gamer, I'd put 18 in STR and CHA, 12 in CON and 10s in INT, WIS and DEX)

OK, just for comments your player may find of interest...

To me, the first step is what you want this character to do. If he's going to focus on hand to hand combat wearing heavy armor, the relevant stats are a lot different than if he plans on wearing light armor and focusing on archery.

Now, which stats are key? Assuming a heavy armor melee combatant, I agree with a low DEX. Paladins don't need Wisdom for much either. A high CHA is important. I assume the high INT indicates a desire to have some extra skill points, while a high CON is for extra hit points (never a bad thing).

I'd have to ask why a half elf. Having two favoured classes only really matters if you plan on multiclassing, not a typical Paladin approach. Are the other abilities worth tossing away a bonus feat and an extra skill point every level (especially given the INT suggests a desire for more skill points)?

STR: I'd go higher for to hit rolls and damage, as a melee combatant.

DEX: Assuming a heavy armor focus, a 10 DEX is fine - higher than 12 is a waste in full plate, and most other heavy armor eliminates any DEX bonus.

CON: I'd try to stick with the 14, but a 12's not the end of the world. You have good hp and lots of healing abilities.

WIS: This could be dumped back to 8. You lose 1 point of Will saves, but that's a strong save to begin with, and if -2 WIS gets +2 CHA, you break even on Will and get +1 to Fort and Ref saves through Divine Grace anyway.

INT: Skill points are nice, but you can afford to direct your Favoured Class bonus here, and being Human would also add skill points. With both, you could get by with a 10 INT, or even have a 12 INT and be up a skill point per level. First step - assess how many skill points you need per level for what you want to accomplish. You don't have a host of useful class skills. Heal is often a deceptive one - you have the Lay on Hands and spells to cover these.

I'd focus on Diplomacy, Sense Motive and maybe Ride (if you plan on mounted combat), and maybe drop an occasional point into Handle Animal, Rise (if not a focus), and the two Knowledges. Let the full casters get Spellcraft. 4 or 5 skill points a level is plenty, and I'd put Favoured Class there since you have no shortage of hp resources.

CHA: Clearly important for save bonuses, Smite Evil bonuses, lay on hands and spells. Also for Diplomacy and similar skills - why not? But it's not the sole important stat.

Overall, I'd probably go Human, drop INT and WIS, maybe even CON, and bump STR. So I'd likely go:

STR 16, INT 12, WIS 8, DEX 10, CON 14 and CHA 18

And put the Human bonus to STR to end up with 2 18's. Or, if you really want to focus on CHA, go with +2 there - you'll have a bit less combat punch but more mystical/Paladin abilities. Level gain stat bonuses can go into CHA as well, to further enhance this. Or, if you find by L4 that you'd like more STR bonuses more than higher CHA bonuses, you can put level bonuses there.

 

[Grimmjow]

http://http://www.enworld.org/forum...-pathfinder-starting-level-10-help-pls-d.html

there you go. While it talks about starting a palladin at level 10 you may find some useful things on there. I know it really helped me and made it easier to play.

GL

 

[NewJeffCT]

thanks - good advice so far. XP awarded

 

[Papa-DRB]

Besides what is said above. What classes are the rest of the party going to be?

With the stats the player has, he would get 5 skill points (diplomacy, sense motive, 2 knowledge, healing(?)). His out of combat role could/should be the party face, which he can do with a 10 int (dipl, sense, something). Is there no rogue, bard or wizard that can do the knowledge skills?

His in combat role is going to be ?what?. He does not have the strength nor dex to be very good at either melee or ranged. If he is the *backup* combat not so bad, but if he is the primary combat person, the group is in trouble.

This also depends on what kind of campaign you are running. Heavy into role play, or heavy into roll play.

Something for you to do is read up on the paladin, especially what his charisma is good for.

-- david
Papa.DRB

 

[NewJeffCT]

Besides what is said above. What classes are the rest of the party going to be?

With the stats the player has, he would get 5 skill points (diplomacy, sense motive, 2 knowledge, healing(?)). His out of combat role could/should be the party face, which he can do with a 10 int (dipl, sense, something). Is there no rogue, bard or wizard that can do the knowledge skills?

His in combat role is going to be ?what?. He does not have the strength nor dex to be very good at either melee or ranged. If he is the *backup* combat not so bad, but if he is the primary combat person, the group is in trouble.

This also depends on what kind of campaign you are running. Heavy into role play, or heavy into roll play.

Something for you to do is read up on the paladin, especially what his charisma is good for.

-- david
Papa.DRB

This would be a new group who have never met each other - so far, it's a cleric, druid and two wizards, plus the paladin.

I'm guessing it will be a balance between combat & role playing.

 

[Papa-DRB]

This would be a new group who have never met each other - so far, it's a cleric, druid and two wizards, plus the paladin.

I'm guessing it will be a balance between combat & role playing.

I do not know how you run your campaigns, but in mine the two wizards would sort of coordinate knowledge skills, so between cleric (K(Rel)), druid (K(Nat)) and the two wizards (K(rest of them)) that aspect should be covered so the Paladin would not need K(anything).

He can still be the face, in fact other than the cleric who needs his few skill points for other things, the Paladin is the best face you have, so diplomacy and sense motive are there for the taking.

Regardless of how the Cleric and Druid build there characters, you will have a combat issue with what you have. Both of them are secondary melee or ranged combat classes. The Paladin is somewhat relegated to secondary also with his current build array. While I would not force the issue, I'd make sure to provide the appropriate combat buff gear (belts of str, + weapons, etc) as soon as you can.

-- david
papa.drb

 

[NewJeffCT]

I think once they meet up in game, coordinating skills is fine... before they meet, I think they should bring the character they want to the table.

 

[gamerprinter]

Sounds like from your party make-up, that your paladin is the melee combat specialist, so I agree, bump up Str to 16 (and if human, put the bonus here) with Cha as your second most important stat - then choose whatever the player wants after that based on skill sharing with other PCs, etc. While clerics and druids can be decent combatants, the paladin is your only full BAB class - most hp and best BAB, so he should be better statted for melee.