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Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder RPG Alpha 3 Now Ready for Download

Kaisoku

First Post
GlassJaw said:
I'm not following...

I think he means how they are giving the Ranger the ability to "take 20" while using Survival skill while moving normally.

Taking 20 usually means you try 20 times (usually), in the sense that you keep trying until you can do your best, resulting in essentially 19 failures before getting the 20 result (and taking 20 times as long).

However, in this case they are using it similar to take 10 mechanic of just "getting a 20" on your roll, since it entails nothing of the normal take 20 rules.

Personally, I don't mind it. They could say "gain a +10 while taking 10", for essentially the same result. The Survival skill doesn't have the failure issues of taking 20 when tracking something (which is all this thing is for).
 

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Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
Kaisoku said:
I think he means how they are giving the Ranger the ability to "take 20" while using Survival skill while moving normally.

Taking 20 usually means you try 20 times (usually), in the sense that you keep trying until you can do your best, resulting in essentially 19 failures before getting the 20 result (and taking 20 times as long).

However, in this case they are using it similar to take 10 mechanic of just "getting a 20" on your roll, since it entails nothing of the normal take 20 rules.

Exactly.

Personally, I don't mind it. They could say "gain a +10 while taking 10", for essentially the same result.

It's nitpicky, but I don't see the value in diluting the definition of Take 20.

The Survival skill doesn't have the failure issues of taking 20 when tracking something (which is all this thing is for).

Sure it does. Read the skill, under "Try Again."

It would be cleaner to say that the 19th level ranger gets a +10 bonus to Survival checks when tracking his quarry. He already has the ability to Take 10. No more is required.
 
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JoelF

First Post
Wulf Ratbane said:
Take 20 <> "You get a 20."

Take 20 = "You get a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and eventually a 20."

I haven't downloaded yet, since I'm getting the store is down error page, but could it be that the ranger ability does in fact represent the ranger getting all numbers 1-20, but just doing it 20 times faster than a non-ranger?
 


Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
JoelF said:
I haven't downloaded yet, since I'm getting the store is down error page, but could it be that the ranger ability does in fact represent the ranger getting all numbers 1-20, but just doing it 20 times faster than a non-ranger?

Then the ability would actually be worse than Take 10 (granted at 11th level), since it would record the "1" result first. I'd rather roll a 10 than a 1.

The text is otherwise identical to the 11th level Take 10 ability.

I get the distinct impression that it's confusion over what Take 20 actually means.
 

Aus_Snow

First Post
I got it, a while ago now. But this time around, I'm having troubles with the site too, getting the printer-friendly version. :D Gotta laugh, really.

Reading it now. . .


edit --- and the PF PF has been downloading for a bit now. No worries.
 
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Kaisoku

First Post
Here's the changes I've been able to determine so far...

Overall more completeness in information (looking more like a book than a bunch of stuff thrown together).
- Step-by-step character creation rules.
- Point buy rules (start with 10, spend points to increase or gain points by decreasing)
- Ability score descriptions, charts, etc

Classes
- Added Bard, Monk and Ranger.

- Bard: Keeps everything he had before pretty much with the following additions
-- EDIT: Spellcasting is improved: 1st level spells at 1st level, no 0 spells per day levels, and more spells known.
-- Additional effects for Bardic Performance (soothing performance, frightening tune, paralyzing show, Deadly Performance)
-- Cantrips like a wizard or sorcerer.
-- Well Versed (+4 vs other bardic performances)
-- Lore Master (take 10/20 on knowledge checks)
-- Jack of all trades (turn skills over your knee and spank them until they work for you)

- Fighter: Gains Bravery (+ towards Fear saves)

- Monk: Retains all the stuff he had before, although some may be a bit more limited or altered.
-- Maneuver Training (use monk levels instead of monk BAB for combat maneuvers, effectively they are full bab class for combat maneuvers)
-- Ki Pool, similar to rage points. Half level + wisdom mod. Use to activate certain abilities (part of High Jump, Wholeness of Body, Abundant Step, Empty Body). Also, as long as you have 1 point (sounds like psionics) you keep Ki effects on your unarmed strikes. Lastly, you can spend 1 point to get an additional attack on your flurry, or a +1 dodge bonus for 1 round, or increase speed an additional 20' for 1 round. Swift action to activate.
-- High Jump (Acrobatics bonuses, count as running on all jumps, add level, etc)

- Ranger: Retains his normal Favored Enemy, spellcasting, etc. Gains a few additional effects and a similar "pet or something else" option.
-- EDIT: Spellcasting is improved. Less 0 spells per day levels, and more spells overall by 20th.
-- Favored Enemy gives +2 bonus to attack as well as damage and skills. Not sure if 3.5e had attack in there with it.
-- Track, add half ranger level to Survival skill when tracking.
-- Combat Style feats, more fully fleshed out (entire archery or twf line of feats chooseable)
-- Favored Terrain (3rd, 8th, 13th, 18th), +2 bonuses to skills in favored terrain, +1 initiative
-- Hunter's Bond, either can give half bonus to your friends against one foe, or get an animal pet like the druid ability.
-- Quarry, bonuses against a single target, repick after 24 hours, auto confirm crit, +attack, tracking. Has to be a favored enemy.
-- Improved Quarry, increased bonus, repick after 10 minutes.
-- Master Hunter, death attack (or nonlethal unconscious attack). Once per day per favored enemy type, once per creature (pass or fail).

- Sorcerer: gained cantrips (was a typo i'm guessing in prev release), additional spells from your bloodline, some minor changes to abilities.

- EDIT: Paladin still have the old spells per day, inferior to the Ranger. I'm guessing this is a typo, like the Sorcerer not having cantrips in Alpha 2. Likely the Paladin hadn't had any other changes considered, so it's entry was left alone.
I'll imagine there will be discussion and an answer shortly on the Pathfinder forums.


Skills, Feats, Combat Actions
I only scanned this quickly, but it looked like nothing much changed in these sections.


Spells
New spell entries:
- Destruction, Finger of Death, Implosion and Wail of Banshee all have similar mechanic as to Harm (10 damage per caster level)
- Divine Power (gives bonuses instead of changing cleric into fighter, luck bonuses, haste effect)
- Restoration (+Greater) changed to work with the "no xp cost" concept (i'm guessing)
- Righteous Might, slight change to DR amounts (increased to normal 5 and 10 ranges)
- Slay Living, does damage now instead of outright death.


Running Pathfinder RPG
- Treasure, short guideline on awarding treasure per CR (monsters vs NPCs, etc)

- Monster section: Create new monsters using Pathfinder rules
-- Chart for Stats by CR... create a monster at a certain CR and consult this chart to see what it should appropriately have for a particular stat.
-- Step by Step on creation of a Monster, what to look for, what guidelines to follow for creating abilities, etc.

- Conversion specifically talks about Power Level now (either add a monster or two, increase hitpoints on enemies, or treat players as 1 level higher). Also advises about how this bonus deflates at around 10th level.


New: NPC Section
Rehash of NPC building (non-heroic classes), as well as charts for Basic or Heroic stats on NPCs, skill/feat path suggestions and ready made feat selections for certain types (Melee (Mounted) is an option for example, and lists a bunch of appropriate feats to give them).

Also includes Gear and a sample NPC built with Pathfinder rules.


Magic Items
Removed the entry on "only two slots for ability scores" and instead have the following items:

Headband of Mental Prowess/Superiority: Increases two (three for superiority) stats at once of Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma.
Belt of Physical Might/Perfection: Increases two (three for Perfection) stats at once of Strength, Dexterity and Constitution.

Basically, instead of forcing it, there is now items that give bonuses to multiple stats in the one slot. Pricing is the normal additional cost for multiple effects, but it's being presented as a standard thing as opposed to having to be tailor made.

No other changes really here.


Character Sheet
The Character Sheet is added to the Alpha 3 pdf, although I saw it as a separate download as well.



That about covers all the changes from Alpha 2 to 3 I think. I like the changes I've seen so far.
 
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Kaisoku

First Post
Wulf Ratbane said:
Then the ability would actually be worse than Take 10 (granted at 11th level), since it would record the "1" result first. I'd rather roll a 10 than a 1.

The text is otherwise identical to the 11th level Take 10 ability.

I get the distinct impression that it's confusion over what Take 20 actually means.

Yes, I see what you mean by that.

Take 20 is already in the game as a mechanic (take 20 times as long, assumed failure up until success at the end). There is a specific reason behind the mechanic, it prevents usage for abilities that have disastrous effects on failure, AND it takes longer. Ignore both those effects and you've basically got the Take 10 mechanic.

If they want to use the Take 10 mechanic, just as a higher number, just add an unnamed bonus instead.

The Bardic Lore uses the same thing (once per day you can take 20 as a standard action on Knowledge).


Both the Ranger and Bard entries really should be changed to just say "... add +10 when you Take 10". For the Bard it's once per day (or more), for the Ranger it's for his Quarry, etc.
 


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