Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Sneak Peeks (Old thread)

[ProfessorCirno]

After the other previews, the Bard one seems pretty meh to me.

Its not that the Bard didn't get some nice things, but compared to what some of the other classes got it doesn't seem nearly as cool. For what is often considered one of the weaker core classes, I expected more.

That's more or less how I'm seeing it right now. The paladin got me hyped in a way that none of the other previews had, but the bard makes me :\

 

[an_idol_mind]

After the other previews, the Bard one seems pretty meh to me.

Its not that the Bard didn't get some nice things, but compared to what some of the other classes got it doesn't seem nearly as cool. For what is often considered one of the weaker core classes, I expected more.

I'm not really interested in bards much anyway, but I think the thing that makes this preview appealing to me is that bards seem more capable of standing on their own and doing some things themselves in a fight, rather than just being there to provide buffs to the rest of the party. They won't dominate a battle, as that's not their role, but it looks like they won't be as much of a fifth wheel, either.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I'm not really interested in bards much anyway, but I think the thing that makes this preview appealing to me is that bards seem more capable of standing on their own and doing some things themselves in a fight, rather than just being there to provide buffs to the rest of the party. They won't dominate a battle, as that's not their role, but it looks like they won't be as much of a fifth wheel, either.

Could you explain how the preview leaves this impression?

Is it the fact that they weakened the buffing duration?

Is it the HD change? (I can see how extra 1 hp/level helps at least).

 

[an_idol_mind]

Could you explain how the preview leaves this impression?

Is it the fact that they weakened the buffing duration?

Is it the HD change? (I can see how extra 1 hp/level helps at least).

More hit points (in addition to the larger hit die, you can now get extra hit points through a favored class bonus), better spell progression, and certain bardic performances that directly harm enemies in some way (such as the dirge of doom mentioned in the blog). Bards aren't going to replace front-line fighters or full spellcasters, but the impression I get from the preview and the beta is that they will have some abilities that stand well on their own, rather than only being useful when they're buffing someone else in the group.

 

[Atlatl Jones]

That's more or less how I'm seeing it right now. The paladin got me hyped in a way that none of the other previews had, but the bard makes me :

I'm the same way. If anything, the bard in the preview seems just as much of a redheaded stepchild as it used to be. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll reserve judgment until I see the full class.

Not only is the bardic music duration nerfed, but it now requires fiddly round-by-round bookeeping as well.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm the same way. If anything, the bard in the preview seems just as much of a redheaded stepchild as it used to be. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll reserve judgment until I see the full class.

Not only is the bardic music duration nerfed, but it now requires fiddly round-by-round bookeeping as well.

I think that's the artifact of the basic premise of 3e bards; weak spellcaster + weak fighter + weak skill user + buff-monkey != solid class design.

Bards should've looked more like late-era spontaneous casters (warmage, beguiler) and been a full caster with some tricks added to account for a otherwise small list of spells (charms, buffs, status-effects) or gone 4e style and make a bard a cleric's equal (healing, buffing) but with a greater emphasis on misdirection and guile and less on holy-butt kicking.

Any attempt to "fix" the 3e bard is going to fail; best is for someone to scrap it and start again.

 

[dm4hire]

Beguiler is a good model for what a bard should be like I agree. First time I saw the PHBII and read it I was like "why can't the bard be like this?" I think another option would have been to make the bard more along 1st ed by scaping the sole class option and making it a prestige class. In all reality it was the first prestige class ever introduced.

Still I don't think any attempt to fix the class will necessarily fail. I like what I see so far from Paizo in that it is at least better than the 3e bard in having some more options. Though I will also hold final judgement on the class till I have the full class in front of me.

 

[AllisterH]

*snort*

The bard hasn't worked right since the switchover from 1st edition IMO. They got it right in 4e finally but between 1st and 4th?

No sirree, that's a wholly useless class IMO. Paizo can't do much about that without a total rewrite.

That said, I'm still more concerned with the "stun for 1d4 rounds on a failed save". How is this NOT a game-ender and encouraging rocket tag unless you purpose built your monsters to be immune to stun

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Sometimes I almost forget how saving throws work in 3.5, but I do wonder - how are the chances - with the revised monsters - for succeeding a saving throw?

In 3.x, many monsters had some good saves and considerably more HD than CR. Worst offender would be Dragons, of course.

 

[dm4hire]

Sample art from the Bestiary is up on Paizo's Blog.

Basidirond
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