• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Sneak Peeks (Old thread)

Now, apparently this ratio of 90% to 10% makes for the sort of game people nowadays get excited about. Guess what, I'm one of those people myself. I'm the sort of person who when bored turns on invincibility mode in Neverwinter Nights for the sole purpose of getting some cheap thrills out of trashing monsters at zero risk. But when I run a table top game at home*, it's understood that everyone's playing to the hilt. That's why I personally don't get anything out this design ethos whereby catering to the lowest level of player skill is the default mode of catering to the lowest common denominator. What's discouraging, perhaps, is that the lowest denominator now includes people who can't be expected to think of attacking an allip or a rust monster other than by melee drawing on metal gear. It's, apparently, too much to ask for. So we need to pay designers to redesign whole generations of monsters to accomodate to that fact. Impressive.


You haven't looked at their APs much, have you? They have made great use of monster advancement, templates (and lots of OGC from other company's books, especially the Advanced Bestiary and the Book of Fiends) and class levels, as well as interesting battlefields and tactics. In most cases, the average skill level players are hard pressed in their APs, and the high-skill players are more than challenged by many of their encounters. Monkeying around with a few maladjusted monsters' stats doesn't equate with dumbing down the tactical aspect of the game when taken in context with the excellent track record this company has with designing adventures and encounters.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

That's why the CR system is, and always will remain, such a crude tool for constructing well-balanced encounters.

I think the issue here is one of approach surely? I use CR as a rough-and-ready indicator of monster strength. To the extent that monster tweakage makes that indicator more accurate I'm all for it. But I don't let CR determine encounters. I am (as I sense are you) a 'sh*t happens' fan when it comes to dungeon strength. Not in a capricious 'oh look you're all dead' way, but in a 'there are bad things in this world that you should avoid, not everything has been balanced up to 1/4 of your resources' way.
 

I personally am not getting that same "4e in feel" feeling when thinking about how animal companions are being handled. 4e companions seem to me like they are just a die type extension of the controller (of the animal), and I also believe those beast companions in 4e get HP at a static rate (no hit dice), and have their beast damage bumped up "at tier" like all other 4e damage systems.

The PF animal companion still seems to sing of 3.x mechanics to me. It looks like they may have added a table to give the player more control over how the animal companion advances as the caster gains levels, but it looks like to me its still a 3.x stat block, with all the usual suspects present. I am also not seeing any "animal attack" powers which leads me to think that directing the animal is still handled through the 3.x system as opposed to "at will" abilities to make the animal do "x".

The reworked animal companion is simply a template with every animal simply modifying said template...

*Looks through Martial Power*

Yeah, that's kind of exactly the manner in which animal companions function there -- personally, I'm waiting for the cries of "That's just like WoW" about the animal companion in pathfinder.
 

Well the animal companion was in the beta threads many months ago.

Ok this was posted by Jason Bulmahn on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, 08:15 PM

Jason Bulmahn said:
Hey there all,

I have spent the past few days reworking some of the rules for animal companions. I would like you to use these rules and tell me what you think. Of particular interest, I would like to know if you find them balanced across all levels (are they useful, but not overpowering)? Is the same true for the ranger and the paladin? Are the rules simple to use (or at least as simple as the old animal companion rules)? These rules leave open the door for a host of new animal companion types, what types should be included? Finally, do you prefer these rules to the existing rules?

Please note that these rules do not represent a final decision in this matter, just an alternate way of how we might do things.

Take them for a spin. Let me know how it goes.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

DRUID ANIMAL COMPANIONS
The following rules for animal companions replace those found under the nature bond ability gained by druids at 1st level. A druid can still select a domain instead of an animal companion at 1st level.

RANGER ANIMAL COMPANIONS
The following rules for animal companions replace those found under the hunter’s bond ability gained by rangers at 4th level. This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name, except that the ranger’s effective druid level is equal to his ranger level –3. A ranger can still select to form a bond with those he hunts with instead of animal companion at 4th level.

PALADIN BONDED MOUNT
The following rules for animal companions replace those found under the divine bond ability gained by paladins at 5th level. This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name, using the paladin’s level as her effective druid level. A paladin can only select a boar, camel, dog, heavy horse, light horse, or pony as her animal companion. Paladin animal companions have a minimum Intelligence score of 6. A paladin can still select to bond with her weapon instead of an animal companion at 5th level.

ANIMAL COMPANIONS
An animal companion’s abilities are determined by the druid’s level and by the type of animal that it is. Although it is generally superior to a normal animal of its kind, some start out less powerful and grow over time. Table X–XX determines many of the base statistics of the animal companion.

Class Level: The character’s druid level. The druid’s class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion’s statistics.
HD: This is the total number of eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice the animal companion possesses, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal.
BAB: This is the animal companion’s base attack bonus. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. Animal companions do not gain additional attacks using their natural weapons for a high base attack bonus.
Fort/Ref/Will: These are the animal companion’s base saving throw bonuses. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves.
Skills: This is the total number of skill points an animal companion possesses. Animal companions can assign their skill points to any of the skills listed under Animal Skills. If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains additional skill points. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill. As with characters, an animal companion cannot have more ranks in a skill then it has Hit Dice.
Feats: This is the total number of feats possessed by an animal companion. Animal companions should select their feats from those listed under Animal Feats. Animal companions can select other feats, although they are unable to utilize some feats (such as Martial Weapon Proficiency). Note that animal companions cannot select a feat with a requirement of base attack bonus +1 until they gain their second feat at 3 Hit Dice.
Natural Armor Bonus: The number noted here is an improvement to the animal companion’s existing natural armor bonus.
Str/Dex Bonus: Add this value to the animal companion’s Strength and Dexterity scores.
Bonus Tricks: The value given in this column is the total number of “bonus” tricks that the animal knows in addition to any that the druid might choose to teach it (see the Handle Animal skill). These bonus tricks don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks, and they don’t count against the normal limit of tricks known by the animal. The druid selects these bonus tricks, and once selected, they can’t be changed.
Special: This includes a number of abilities gained by animal companions as they increase in power. Each of these bonuses is described below.
Link (Ex): A druid can handle her animal companion as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an animal companion.
Share Spells (Ex): The druid may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A druid may cast spells on her animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion’s type (animal).
Evasion (Ex): If an animal companion is subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, it takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw.
Ability Score Increase (Ex): The animal companion adds +1 to one of its ability scores.
Devotion (Ex): An animal companion gains a +4 morale bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects.
Multiattack: An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty.
Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, an animal companion takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and only half damage if the saving throw fails.

Table X–XX: Animal Companion Base Statistics
>>>>>>>>Natural
Class>>>>>>>>Armor>Str/Dex>Bonus
Level>HD>BAB>Fort>Ref>Will>Skills>Feats>Bonus>Bo nus>Tricks>Special
1>2>+1>+3>+3>+0>2>1>+0>+0>1>Link, share spells
2>3>+2>+3>+3>+1>3>2>+0>+0>1>—
3>3>+2>+3>+3>+1>3>2>+2>+1>2>Evasion
4>4>+3>+4>+4>+1>4>2>+2>+1>2>Ability score increase
5>5>+3>+4>+4>+1>5>3>+2>+1>2>—
6>6>+4>+5>+5>+2>6>3>+4>+2>3>Devotion
7>6>+4>+5>+5>+2>6>3>+4>+2>3>—
8>7>+5>+5>+5>+2>7>4>+4>+2>3>—
9>8>+6>+6>+6>+2>8>4>+6>+3>4>Ability score increase, Multiattack
10>9>+6>+6>+6>+3>9>5>+6>+3>4>—
11>9>+6>+6>+6>+3>9>5>+6>+3>4>—
12>10>+7>+7>+7>+3>10>5>+8>+4>5>—
13>11>+8>+7>+7>+3>11>6>+8>+4>5>—
14>12>+9>+8>+8>+4>12>6>+8>+4>5>Ability score increase
15>12>+9>+8>+8>+4>12>6>+10>+5>6>Improved evasion
16>13>+9>+8>+8>+4>13>7>+10>+5>6>—
17>14>+10>+9>+9>+4>14>7>+10>+5>6>—
18>15>+11>+9>+9>+5>15>8>+12>+6>7>—
19>15>+11>+9>+9>+5>15>8>+12>+6>7>—
20>16>+12>+10>+10>+5>16>8>+12>+6>7>Ability score increase

((Note: To read this table, paste it into a word document and replace all of the ">" with "^t" or tabs))

Animal Skills
Animal companions can have ranks in any of the following skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). All of these skills are class skills for animal companions.

Animal Feats
Animal companions can select from the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (all), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Die Hard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus.

Animal Types
Each animal companion has a type, which defines it starting size, speed, attacks, ability scores, and other special qualities. As you gain in levels, your animal companion gains in power as well, usually at 4th or 7th level, in addition to the standard bonuses noted on table X–XX.

Ape
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 30 ft., Climb 30 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack 2 claws (1d4), bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 claws (1d6), bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.

Badger (Wolverine)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 30 ft., burrow 10 ft., climb 10 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 claws (1d3), bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10; Special Attacks rage; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack 2 claws (1d4), bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2.

Bear
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 claws (1d3), bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack 2 claws (1d4), bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 4, Dex –2, Con +2.

Bird (Eagle/Hawk/Owl)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 10 ft., fly 80 ft. (average); AC +1 natural armor; Attack 2 talons (1d4), bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision.
4th Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.

Boar
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 40 ft.; AC +6 natural armor; Attack gore (1d6); Ability Scores Str 11, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 4; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack gore (1d8); Ability Scores Str 4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Attacks ferocity.

Camel
Starting Statistics: Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite* (1d4*); Ability Scores Str 18, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 4; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent. * A camel’s bite is a treated as a secondary attack and adds only half the camel’s Str bonus on the damage roll.
4th Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.

Cat, Big (Lion, Tiger)
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack 2 claws (1d4), bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10; Special Attacks pounce; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
7th Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 claws (1d6), bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks improved grab, rake (1d6).

Cat, Small (Cheetah, Leopard)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 50 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 claws (1d2); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 21, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Attacks trip; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d2); Ability Scores Str 4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Qualities sprint.

Crocodile (Alligator)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 20 ft., swim 30 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2; Special Qualities hold breath, low-light vision.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d8) or tail slap (1d12); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Attacks improved grab.

Dinosaur, Theropod (Megaraptor, Tyrannosaurus)
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
7th Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (2d6); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks improved grab, swallow whole.

Dire Rat
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 40 ft., climb 20 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4; Special Attacks disease; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.

Dog
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2.

Horse, heavy
Starting Statistics: Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack 2 hooves (1d6*); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent. * A horse’s bite is a treated as a secondary attack and adds only half the horse’s Str bonus on the damage roll.
4th Level Advancement: Attack 2 hooves (1d6), bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Qualities war trained.

Horse, light
Starting Statistics: Size Large; Speed 60 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack 2 hooves (1d4*); Ability Scores Str 14, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent. * A horse’s bite is a treated as a secondary attack and adds only half the horse’s Str bonus on the damage roll.
4th Level Advancement: Attack 2 hooves (1d4), bite (1d3); Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Qualities war trained.

Monitor Lizard
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 30 ft., swim 30 ft.; AC +3 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2; Special Qualities low-light vision.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2.

Pony
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 hooves (1d3*); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 4; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent. * A pony’s bite is a treated as a secondary attack and adds only half the camel’s Str bonus on the damage roll.
4th Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Qualities war trained.

Shark
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed swim 60 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2; Special Qualities keen scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Qualities blindsense.

Snake, constrictor
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d2); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 19, Con 11, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2; Special Attacks improved grab; Special Qualities scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d3); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Attacks constrict (1d3+4).

Snake, viper
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4 plus poison); Ability Scores Str 8, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2; Special Attacks poison (1d6 Con/1d6 Con, Con-based DC); Special Qualities scent.
4th Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.

Wolf
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 50 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Attacks trip; Special Qualities scent.
7th Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.


There that is the basis for all animal companion's. As you can see you really pick your companion it acts much like a race and you gain "levels" in the animal companion "class"
 
Last edited:

Well, let's look in the DMG 3.5, p.50, under the Heading Difficulty and the subheading Challenging:
Most encounters seriously threaten at least one member of the group in some way. These are challenging encounters, about equal in Encounter Level to the party level. The average adventuring group should be able to handle four such challenging encounters before they run low on spells, hit points, and other resources. If an encounter doesn't cost the PCs some significant portion of their resources, it's not challenging.
That is a guideline for encounter design - obviously, it also is a guideline for CRs, since a single monster has an Encounter Level equal to its CR.

So, can a 3rd level party handle 4 Allip (with ability drain) encounters? Can they recover after a rest?


This is not about "tyranny of fun". Challenge Ratings are a tool for the DM to guage the difficulty and impact of an encounter. If a monsters CR doesn't correctly identify its difficulty or impact during an encounter, it is wrong. The tool fails.
Either the CR or the monster needs to be changed in some ways.

Why do expect Pathfinder to suddenly throw away tools that 3rd Edition introduced? Who would be served by that? Who would be served by not making the tool better than it used to be?
 

Nice! No proper Pathfinder thread without a little kick at a edition you don´t like, eh? :yawn:

How is that a "kick" at 4e? Scroll up, look at the comments about how stupid Gary Gygax must have been to design creatures like the rust monster. Of couse, that's not a "kick" at 4e, so it doesn't count, right?
 


When you're in a four hour tournament, you don't want a bad encounter to bring everything to a standstill. Having the adventure come to a total standstill is also a bad thing at the tabletop and contributes to that '20 minutes of fun packed into four hours' meme.

The original Rust Monster also has a whole class of buddies (The disenchanter, the goldbug, the bookworm, many others) that exist for the sole purpose of screwing the players. Honestly, that's it's only function and the love this creature has inspired just baffles me. It's a badly-designed monster, period.

I think it's time to get rid of the childishly adversarial monsters that only exist to screw with people so we can get back to some serious adventuring.

Yeah, forcing someone to hit something with a club instead of a sword is bad design. What were they thinking? So I lost my chainmail? So what? I'm a hero, not a collection of gear. I suck it up and go on with the adventure. I find leaving the dungeon because of this obnoxious. Yeah, you're less effective, so what? That's what makes it an adventure. Running in, dispatching the bad guy with no problems is boring. But that's modern design, every encounter has to be met with the party at full strength. Why even have anything other than a boss fight? The other encounters are there just to whittle down your resources, absent that, they serve no purpose. I miss the days of the battered and beaten party, struggling onward, against adversity, beating the bad guys, not due to lack of, but in spite of the odds.
 

Yeah, forcing someone to hit something with a club instead of a sword is bad design. What were they thinking? So I lost my chainmail? So what? I'm a hero, not a collection of gear. I suck it up and go on with the adventure. I find leaving the dungeon because of this obnoxious. Yeah, you're less effective, so what? That's what makes it an adventure. Running in, dispatching the bad guy with no problems is boring. But that's modern design, every encounter has to be met with the party at full strength. Why even have anything other than a boss fight? The other encounters are there just to whittle down your resources, absent that, they serve no purpose. I miss the days of the battered and beaten party, struggling onward, against adversity, beating the bad guys, not due to lack of, but in spite of the odds.

Because melee classes since the beginning are mostly their gear?

Um, this was pretty bad in 1e/2e as well. Remember, in 1e/2e you needed a +1 and a higher to hit certain monsters so if the DM used a rust monster at an earlier encounter, there's a very good chance that the melee characters were effectively done for the rest of the dungeon as unless the DM "happened" to drop +1/+2 loot, what exactly is a fighter supposed to do against a pit fiend?

More importantly, what exactly aout the fighter's CLASS abilities provide anything releveant to the battle?
 

If you follow the link and read the blog you'll see that the amulet can be used in wild shape form.
Yes, I get that. What I dont get it spending a chunk of your available wealth on something you can easily replicate with a spell (unless they have nered GMF).
 

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top