Pathfinder 1E [Pathfinder] The Old School New School Fighter

[The Green Adam]

The choice of a name for this class seems ludicrously simple to me.

If you want a classic, basic Fighter class, call it a Fighter. Remember that the current incarnation of this class is called Warrior. Warrior sounds much more involved then Fighter which is basically, y'know, someone who fights.



AD
Barking Alien

 

[Dagredhel]

I think this is the consensus.

My Take:
Base Attack Bonus: Good
Hit Dice: d12
Saves: All Saves are Good
Skill Points: 4+INT
Class Skills: As Fighter
Weapon Proficiency: All Simple and Martial Weapons
Armor Proficiency: Light, Medium, Heavy, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, Tower Shield

So... I'd agree that this would make a good base.

Compared to the Pathfinder Fighter (at least what I recall offhand from the Beta,) it's probably still lacking comparatively, though.

It seems like you're going more for simple versus retro, am I right? The "old school" feel you're striving for is uncomplicated play, rather than a recreation of a specifc ruleset, correct?

One thing lacking (and which a Fighter should have) is greater damage-dealing capability. A scaling bonus per level is a really straightforward fix. A large bonus could be limited to a single attack requiring a full attack action (so no iterative attacks, just the one for the round.)

Defenses could also be beefed up without making the bennies specific to a particular type of armor. Make it a blanket bonus to AC scaling with level. Or add DR. How about temporary hit points each round equal to the AC bonus of armor and shield? (Or half that, if you think that is over the top.)

As Voadam mentioned, there will still be some "must have" feats in order to pull the "master of arms" riff off. Perhaps you'd prefer a player to pick these up as regular feats from level advancement. But for a "retro" old school previous edition feel, I'd consider including Cleave (and perhaps the feats and abilities that improve it... Great Cleave and Supreme Cleave?)

Some rulesets gave the Fighting Man/Fighter the ability to sweep the rug (make lots and lots of attacks) against low (was it 1HD or less?) foes. I think Cleave is a good way to represent that. Give the class Cleave as a virtual feat without Power Attack as a prerequisite.

The other "retro" appropriate feat worth mentioning is Leadership at 9th level.

As to a name for the class, my suggestion is Myrmidon. I always thought it was one of the coolest "named" levels.

 

[coyote6]

If you want a classic, basic Fighter class, call it a Fighter. Remember that the current incarnation of this class is called Warrior.

I don't think I understand. D&D 4e, D&D 3e, D&D 3.5e, and Pathfinder (so pick whichever one is "current" for this discussion) all already have a class called "fighter", so calling this class Fighter will probably be confusing.

3.Xe also has a "warrior" class, ergo the need for a different name.

If "Fighting Man" is out due to "man" being in the name, "Man-at-Arms" is also likely out. You could substitute a different word for man -- "folk" is the common substitution in monster names, so "Fighting Folk"? Or go with Master of Arms.

Or just grab a 1e PH and pick a Fighter level title that's not already used for a class, gender-specific, or too specific sounding.

Hmm, now I must google for 'em...

Edit:
"Veteran"?

 

[Shazman]

Good point; Let's get rid of that then.



I think the Beta is pretty indicative of it.



That is a problem. The barbarian is a good yardstick and I admit that fast movement and rage are worse. This is a convincing argument to put the BAB and AC bonuses off until 4th. However . . .



. . . I don't personally give a lot of weight to arguments that rely too heavily on build logic alone simply because it's not how 3e games tend to work in practice.



Seems too weak compared to other classes as you level up. The Pathfinder Fighter is getting tons of extra feats, automatic weapon group to hit bonuses, AC bonuses from certain armor types and bravery.

However, looking back at the Pathfinder fighter we have these AC, to hit and damage bonuses limited by weapon, capping at +4. So I can see further merits for your argument of +1/5 starting at 5th.

I think the easiest way to do this is to take a Pathfinder fighter, and build it for your player with all static bonus feats. Give them feats like toughness, weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved critical, alertness, the save boosting feats, skill focus, etc. Calculate all the bonuses for the feats on their sheet for them. Give them one kind of masterwork weapon and armor they like, and let them keep enhancing it as they progress. Even if they have a ton of feats, they won't add to the complexity of the character if they all just add static bonuses to hit, damage, saves, skills, etc. They don't have to even look at their feats. All of the math is done for them.

 

[Betote]

You can always go with a Fighter with the feat selections from the NPC section. That's quite straightforward to me.

 

[dogoftheunderworld]

What about going with the Fighter class, but adding some more straight forward fighter-only feats:

Attack! (Fighter bonus feat): +1 attack bonus (stacks with Attack!)

Defense! (finghter bonus feat): +1 fighter bonus to AC (stacks with Defense!)

Stand your Ground! (fbf): +6 HP (stacks)

Battle Hardened! (fdf): DR 1/-


(etc)

Gives the figther a choice in direction, but still simple to add bonus at level advancement. (Warning: These feats have not been tested and may un-balance your game world, causing a primordial ice age.)

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I'd like to see a simpler fighter as well. Ideally a class who gets EVERYTHING at first level. No new abilities, the existing abilities merely improve with level. Here are a few examples.

The fightiing man increases the damage die by one with any weapon he uses, from a tree branch to a greatsword. He may also roll 2 damage dice and drop the lowest. This one might be a bit too powerful, but I like it.

The fighting man's ac increases by +1 every 4 levels.

The fighting man is tough. He may continue to make standard actions at negative hit points.

The fighting man is a field medic. He may bind wounds and restore 1d6 hit points per level. This is a standard action and may be used 1x/level per day.

The fighting man is used to battle. He recovers from wounds quicker than others and is back on the battlfield while others would be bedfast from their wounds. He recovers hit points from rest at twice the rate of others.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Or...

Perhaps what you want is a variation on the Warlock... not wait a second and follow me here.

Rather than a fighter which we already kind of have, why not just simplify and straighten up the warlock base class. Effectively, you have:
- A repeatable magical ranged attack that does more damage as you level.
- A magical melee attack that works through a weapon such as a staff or mace.
- The support of feats that enhance in straightforward ways these two basic aspects. Rather than long and specific chains of feats, you have a set of warlock "powers" as it were somewhat similar to Barbarian rage powers (for those that have the book). By being simple in scope, it's just a case of saying, I want my Eldritch Blast to have a range of 60 feet rather than 30 feet and so on. Feats end up being add-ons to the basic ranged and melee magical attacks.

I think you would then have a simple character that would follow the stipulations set down. It's the arcane version of the basic first edition fighter but within the 3.PF framework.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[MichaelSomething]

How about a Pathfinder Fighter without the feats? Instead of having feats, simply have 2 fighter levels be equal to one regular level.

 

[Dagredhel]

After reviewing the Pathfinder SRD Fighter and Feats...

If we take for granted that we'll start with the following:

Base Attack Bonus: Good
Hit Dice: d12
Saves: All Saves are Good
Skill Points: 4+INT
Class Skills: As Fighter
Weapon Proficiency: All Simple and Martial Weapons
Armor Proficiency: Light, Medium, Heavy, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, Tower Shield

...Then I'd suggest the following additional changes to the Pathfinder Fighter:

Lose the Fighter bonus feats.

Lose Bravery. (The Champion/Veteran/Myrmidon/Pick-a-Name now has a Good Will Save instead.)

Keep Armor Training as-is. (How often does a character switch armor? The benefits are nice and easily applied.)

Alter Weapon Training (call it "Attack Training" instead, maybe?) by extending the attack bonus to all weapons and doubling the damage bonus. (Applying the bonus to all weapons simplifies things. Doubling the damage bonus makes up somewhat for the extra damage-dealing potential represented by the lost bonus feats.)

How 'bout that?