Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder To Get New Core Rulebooks Soon

It's not just D&D that's getting a 'revised' set of core books--Pathfinder is also getting 'remastered' books! The core rulebooks are being replaced by a new set of books, with new names, but like D&D it is being reiterated that this is not a new edition--"With the exception of a few minor variations in terminology and a slightly different mix of monsters, spells, and magic items, the rules remain largely unchanged."

The existing Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Gamemastery Guide, Bestiary, and Advanced Player’s Guide are being replaced with Pathfinder Player Core, Pathfinder GM Core, Pathfinder Monster Core, and Pathfinder Player Core 2.

These books appear to focus on re-organization and consolidation of existing material rather than substantive changes. They also represent Paizo's move away from the Open Gaming License and towards the new Open RPG Creative (ORC) license. Paizo says "This transition will result in a few minor modifications to the Pathfinder Second Edition system, notably the removal of alignment and a small number of nostalgic creatures, spells, and magic items exclusive to the OGL. These elements remain a part of the corpus of Pathfinder Second Edition rules for those who still want them, and are fully compatible with the new remastered rules, but will not appear in future Pathfinder releases."

Pathfinder 2E - Paizo Reveals Wayne Reynolds' Pathfinder Remastered Cover Sketches

While the final colour pieces won't arrive for a few weeks, Paizo's Erik Mona revealed the cover sketches of the upcoming Pathfinder Remastered core rulebooks while at the GAMA industry trade show yesterday. In an unsual move, you will actually be able to buy special 'sketch' editions of the...

www.enworld.org

 

[SteveC]

So I go on vacation away from my laptop for a few days and look what happens. I hope that I have enough cred with enjoying PF2 to say this because I am definitely not a hater but ... this is a 2.5. If you remove both ability scores and alignments, you aren't making small changes. I know that those changes are going to be positive in many eyes, or no real change in the case of ability scores, but ... that's big stuff. These changes are actually bigger than say 3.0 to 3.5.

And I get there are so many reasons to do this, if nothing else to use the ORC rather than OGL. I just hope they didn't print that many new copies of the existing edition.

 

[payn]

So I go on vacation away from my laptop for a few days and look what happens. I hope that I have enough cred with enjoying PF2 to say this because I am definitely not a hater but ... this is a 2.5. If you remove both ability scores and alignments, you aren't making small changes. I know that those changes are going to be positive in many eyes, or no real change in the case of ability scores, but ... that's big stuff. These changes are actually bigger than say 3.0 to 3.5.

And I get there are so many reasons to do this, if nothing else to use the ORC rather than OGL. I just hope they didn't print that many new copies of the existing edition.

Here, right now, I cant agree with that. Certainly not removing ability score numbers and alignment which are basically cosmetic changes. Thats not to say mechanical adjustments are not coming, but I don't think that take is correct from what we have heard so far.

 

[Rushbolt]

That does not say that they could have ripped the OGL out of the CRB and Bestiary 1 and published them in otherwise exactly the same form (which is @Rushbolt's claim). "Significantly less important" != "excised entirely". The latter is what is happening with the Remix.

Just don't split hairs to prove a point here. The statement made on Jan 12 stating that PF 2e doesn't have Wizards' expressions is misleading and should not have been made. As a matter of fact, this is really when Paizo should have announced they will be remastering this edition because Wizards' had not even walked back the OGL 1.1 yet. That did not happen until late January. I believe Paizo knew the OGL references had to come out at this point. Erik Mona stated on Roll for Combat they have been working on the Remaster a few months now which lines up very much with my interpretation. Mona also stated they looked at the 2019 books and found OGL creatures and magic items. So they made the statement on January 12 without looking? Seems reckless at best. They intentionally manipulated their new consumer base resulting from the OGL 1.1 into purchasing product they knew they were replacing and used that money to actually fund the Remaster product. Personally, I think that's a lousy thing to do to your new players. Paizo should learns from Wizards' mistakes and not assume RPG players are dumb sheep that won't see through the fact you withheld information to sell through your backstock and played them for suckers.

 

[SteveC]

Here, right now, I cant agree with that. Certainly not removing ability score numbers and alignment which are basically cosmetic changes. Thats not to say mechanical adjustments are not coming, but I don't think that take is correct from what we have heard so far.

I knew that would be a controversial statement (I blame Knights of Last Call!) but I think 3-18 is core to the game. I was at an event with 8 gaming friends this last weekend and they all agreed. Now in PF 2E, ability scores aren't used for anything (although I do use them to break ties) but this is, in my opinion, a serious break with tradition. It's one I expected for 3E. And as uncool as alignments are viewed, they fit into many parts of the game that Paizo is currently trying to unwrap, but are also part of the core game experience in my opinion.

Once again: not planning on halting my games but let's just say "this is a major revision," and then say "so what?" I haven't recently invested in books, but if I had, I'd be a bit peeved. And I think the reason we are getting much more measured reactions is because Paizo has a lot of good will at the moment.

 

[Staffan]

I have to wonder: Does Paizo even want us to buy books anymore?

I don't know if it's still true, but it used to be that Paizo was a bit of an odd duck as an RPG publisher. Most RPG publishers make their main money from core books, followed by source books, and only publish adventures as an afterthought if at all because common wisdom is that you'd be lucky not to lose money on adventures. But Paizo made adventures, in the form of the adventure path, the centerpiece of their publishing efforts. That's part of why their rule book PDFs are pretty cheap – $20 these days, and they used to be $10. Make your money from selling the APs, and provide the rules to play them for cheap.

 

[glass]

So I go on vacation away from my laptop for a few days and look what happens. I hope that I have enough cred with enjoying PF2 to say this because I am definitely not a hater but ... this is a 2.5. If you remove both ability scores and alignments, you aren't making small changes.

Alignment, maaaaybe. It remains to be seen how they deal with that, and how big the impact is.

But ability scores? They're virtually gone already - monsters & NPCs no longer have them, BB character no longer have them, and the PCs that do have them never actually use them for anything other than determining the modifier.

These changes are actually bigger than say 3.0 to 3.5.

The thing with 3.0 => 3.5 was not the size, it was the quantity. Almost all the changes were small individually, but there thousands of them. A smaller number of larger, more easily remembered changes, is easier to deal with IMNSO than lots of tiny ones.

Just don't split hairs to prove a point here. The statement is misleading and should not have been made.

Pointing out the significantly different things are in fact significantly different, or that the statement is not axiomatically misleading just because you choose to interpret it in a nonsensical way, are not "splitting hairs".

I knew that would be a controversial statement (I blame Knights of Last Call!) but I think 3-18 is core to the game.

That's fine. De gustibus non est disputandum. But I would suggest that your issue is with the original PF2 rules, not with the Remix.

 

[payn]

I knew that would be a controversial statement (I blame Knights of Last Call!) but I think 3-18 is core to the game. I was at an event with 8 gaming friends this last weekend and they all agreed. Now in PF 2E, ability scores aren't used for anything (although I do use them to break ties) but this is, in my opinion, a serious break with tradition. It's one I expected for 3E. And as uncool as alignments are viewed, they fit into many parts of the game that Paizo is currently trying to unwrap, but are also part of the core game experience in my opinion.

Once again: not planning on halting my games but let's just say "this is a major revision," and then say "so what?" I haven't recently invested in books, but if I had, I'd be a bit peeved. And I think the reason we are getting much more measured reactions is because Paizo has a lot of good will at the moment.

Dont get me wrong, im an alignment lover, but its not that strongly present in PF2. It was ready made to be stripped out if any OGL non-sense arrived and well... The ability score stuff is entirely cosmetic and is easily kept if it helps your senses.

I take issue with saying this is bigger than 3-3.5 because there was quite a bit of mechanical change there. Those two games did not play the same and were barely, maybe if you squint, backwards compatible. PF2 to PF2.1 is going to be much less changed and far more compatible if what Paizo says now is true.

 

[payn]

I don't know if it's still true, but it used to be that Paizo was a bit of an odd duck as an RPG publisher. Most RPG publishers make their main money from core books, followed by source books, and only publish adventures as an afterthought if at all because common wisdom is that you'd be lucky not to lose money on adventures. But Paizo made adventures, in the form of the adventure path, the centerpiece of their publishing efforts. That's part of why their rule book PDFs are pretty cheap – $20 these days, and they used to be $10. Make your money from selling the APs, and provide the rules to play them for cheap.

This often overlooked, especially by folks who have low opinions of adventure paths. Despite common thinking that most folks just buy rulebooks and make their own games up, Paizo makes their living off the subs, particularly the adventure ones.

 

[SteveC]

I take issue with saying this is bigger than 3-3.5 because there was quite a bit of mechanical change there. Those two games did not play the same and were barely, maybe if you squint, backwards compatible. PF2 to PF2.1 is going to be much less and far more compatible if what Paizo says now is true.

I think we're going to really see that as many classes are getting a revision. What I don't like is how we're getting more than what I'd call a simple revision, but less than a full edition. I think it's going to be enough to annoy people who want both. If you use books as a reference and your class gets serious revisions, as I expect classes like Alchemist, Oracle, and Witch to get ... you're going to need new books.

Now don't get me wrong: I am entirely online, and have been since 4E, so I expect the changes for me as a player will involved an update to Pathbuilder and a check to see what my new options are. As a GM, I wonder how much change it will be. Will APs be updated? Will Foundry modules be updated? Will I need to repurchase them? In that case, I'll honestly wait for the release before buying anything new, and I actually spend money with Paizo, so if there are a lot of people like me, that could be an issue.

 

[payn]

I think we're going to really see that as many classes are getting a revision. What I don't like is how we're getting more than what I'd call a simple revision, but less than a full edition. I think it's going to be enough to annoy people who want both. If you use books as a reference and your class gets serious revisions, as I expect classes like Alchemist, Oracle, and Witch to get ... you're going to need new books.

Now don't get me wrong: I am entirely online, and have been since 4E, so I expect the changes for me as a player will involved an update to Pathbuilder and a check to see what my new options are. As a GM, I wonder how much change it will be. Will APs be updated? Will Foundry modules be updated? Will I need to repurchase them? In that case, I'll honestly wait for the release before buying anything new, and I actually spend money with Paizo, so if there are a lot of people like me, that could be an issue.

Thats a great question, I assume Foundry going forward will reflect the current PF2.1 state. However, will there be any retroactive adjustment for playing past APs? I can see some being miffed by this. I'd likely just run my previous stuff in the previous edition like I do with PF1 APs. If I was involved in PFS, Id go with PDFs. I don't really buy physical books anymore because of these situations which I expect to become more frequent in the future.