Paying the troops - D&D Economics

[Janx]

So right now, I'm building up a pay scal matrix for the military in my campaign world.

Using the DMG (3e), it shows mercs get paid about 2sp, and merc leaders get paid 3sp+sp/level.

All of these numbers are "per day" amounts. So I did some math (28 days per month *3sp)=84 sp per level per month.

That's not too bad. It yielded some neat numbers for various ranks which I guessed the levels would be at. But then I was thinking, as I was looking at the 12th level "Admiral" rank. The guy's making 1008sp per month. That's a big number. He could buy a lot of beer at the inn. Or stay at the inn. Every day. room service.

But then I thought, what if he wants to buy a house and raise a family. A simple house costs 1000GP. He's making 100GP a month or 1200GP a year. Bank's will loan 2-3 times your annual salary. So he could get approved for a 3600gp loan. He can buy a house or two.

Now, we're not even looking at all the gear he's supposed to own, as a 12th level guy. He's supposed to be worth 88,000GP. Not on a government salary he's not. He's not going to accrue that kind of wealth.

To take all this in, consider a starting Lieutenant would make about 300sp per month. That's a 3rd level PC per my fuzzy math. Now I'm the recruiter, trying to get you to stay on. I'm offering you adventure, excitement, free room and board, and 30GP a month. Wouldn't you say screw that and go beat up an Orc and take his money?

Now granted, being an adventurer should be lucrative. They face more random and not-so-random encounters. However, it'd be nice to show that folks working for the man, can be kept in pace (especially to justify the making of NPCs that work for the man and kick butt).

The potential solution?

Borrow a page from The Oriental Adventures book that talks about this. Since samurai don't touch dead people, they don't loot bodies, hence, don't get better gear. The solution is to have the higher level leaders reward people with special items, land grants, etc. Basically, bonuses that don't appear on the basic pay chart.

So all that's left is to find a cheap formula for how much and how often these boons are granted. That then gives me the tool to keep my players equipped while they serve in the military campaign I'm running.

Thoughts?

Janx

 

[kigmatzomat]

Well, there are various perks and social pressures to apply.

Perks:
In some places only those who served in the military could own weapons/vote/own property/etc.
Most pre-modern military allowed looting and navies had well-known scales for distributing prize monies from trophy ships.
Gauranteed room and board. People with no ability to manage money can survive in the military since they can't starve or be evicted.

Social Pressure:
The military is the only route to political power for those non-noble borne.
Warriors have a better chance of getting married than a farmer.
Military service may be required by all who cannot afford to buy their way out of it.
The military is the only socially acceptable route to combat in a "highly civilized" nation.

Then there is the political climate. Militaries without a global agenda may go a decade without any significant action. Many medieval forces are more police than soldiers so it's not like they'd necessarily be shipping out.

Last but not least there is the notion of patriotism and tradition. It's not like our soldiers or police are paid an immense fortune by any means. The medieval equivalents must exist. You've also got to realize the low pay scales in the RAW. Urban peasants make about 300sp/year.

I'd use a pay scale based on rank, not level. Set ranks and *typical* levels but it's not an automatic thing, just that most people don't get promoted to the given level without having the commensurate skills. The military has more than a few individuals who have skills to vital to muster out but no ability or inclination to have increased command. I've seen plenty of that type in the technical fields as well.

 

[Tonguez]

Every chracter gets a Influence score determined as Cha mod + level + bonuses

eg Lieutenant 3 with Cha 14 gets a Base Influence of 5 + bonuses (he leads a successful raid on the enemy +2 for a total Influence of +7)

So Lieutenant 3 wants to get himself a Boat, the DM sets the DC at 16.

Lieutenant 3 rolls D20 + Influence vs DC 16

Admiral 12 on the other hand with Cha 14 gets a base influence of +14 (+ bonuses) so he can pretty much requisition whatever he needs (including that boat)

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Most pre-modern military allowed looting and navies had well-known scales for distributing prize monies from trophy ships.

I second that. Regular pay for mercenaries and most soldiers was lousy during most historical periods - but looting is where the big money was. Indeed, the idea that professional soldiers shouldn't loot is a fairly modern invention...

Note also that mercenaries only get hired for dangerous jobs - and these are usually the ones that have plenty of opportunities for looting.

 

[MonsterMash]

Well, there are various perks and social pressures to apply.

Perks:
In some places only those who served in the military could own weapons/vote/own property/etc.

Romans come to mind here with the veterans getting the landgrants after completing their service

Last but not least there is the notion of patriotism and tradition. It's not like our soldiers or police are paid an immense fortune by any means. The medieval equivalents must exist. You've also got to realize the low pay scales in the RAW. Urban peasants make about 300sp/year.

It wasn't such a big factor in all ancient or medieval societies, generally in a fuedal society your loyalty is to your immediate lord rather than the state.

I'd use a pay scale based on rank, not level. Set ranks and *typical* levels but it's not an automatic thing, just that most people don't get promoted to the given level without having the commensurate skills. The military has more than a few individuals who have skills to vital to muster out but no ability or inclination to have increased command. I've seen plenty of that type in the technical fields as well.

Allow for the fact that most medieval societies might give rank based on social standing (at least at the start of a campaign) not on military expertise so ranks in Noble might be more likley for a general than ranks in Fighter.

 

[Turanil]

Thoughts?

For me, the D&D economics system is flawed and totally unrealistic. I once tried to fix it for my campaign, but it proved too much work. So now, as a DM, I wavehands economics. As a player I prefer not to think about it...

 

[MonsterMash]

I remember White Dwarf having articles on the economics of D&D back in the early issues (around the teens/twenties) and had a look again at those recently and its true that D&D economies are pretty ridiculous across all the editions. Then again its about adventuring and heroics not 'Double Entry Bookkeeping the RPG'.

 

[Janx]

Well in the pay chart I've whipped up, I picked the amounts for ranks assuming certain levels. However in play, I don't expect it to be a 100% match of rank to level. It was good enough to eyeball the numbers.

Spoils of war is definitely supported (particularly because this is a naval based game with pirates (but not dino-riders)). So you can expect some degree of income padding.

However, in game play, it's still been a bit lean on the loot side (granted, that's my dice rolling on the random treasure tables). So I'm looking to create a process for regulating pay and giving bonuses to compensate.

I'd probably like something where the PCs complete a mission, and are given a bonus reward (for each character). It would be something rolled up, based on their level (modifier for signifigance of their victory) and hand them their "thing" Perhaps limit the "rewarding" to once per level, as well, just to keep things in focus.

Things that would make interesting awards:
land grants (undeveloped)
land grant (developed property, thus giving income)
noble titles
potions
magic weapons
magic armor
other random magic goodies
art
gems & jewelry

any thing else that might be interesting and not on the normal treasure table? My assumption is, hand out more expensive stuff, based on their level.

 

[Gamecock]

Actually, the way you figured it out works pretty well Sargent and below is welfare wages. Generals/Admirals lived high on the hog.


But remember Gen Eisenhower was only the 12th person to make that rank (in 1943). There are not many Generals or Admidrals.

 

[S'mon]

I agree with the point that most of the wealth of high level NPCs will come from looting (ie what adventurers do to dead orcs) rather than from their regular pay. Those who never loot (adventure) will likely have less than 'standard' wealth.

IMC I did roughly double military pay though, so a regular heavy infantryman gets 12gp/month rather than 6gp/month, and heavily reduced buildings costs from what it says in my 3.0 DMG.