PC creating his own poison

[JadeLyon]

I have a player who wants his Drow character to develop a very powerful poison. He uses throwing darts, which his character makes himself, to administer the poison.

He has maxed out two professions: dart maker and apothecary.
He has also maxed out his alchemy skill.

The poison he suggested gets more has a fairly low Fort save (I said 16, he wants 20). He wanted to give it properties that increased likelihood of paralysis each round.

I suggested this: Fort Save of 16 negates. Each round, for 3 rounds, the victim must make another will save.

This gives him 3 rounds and three chances to fail. I think a character that has obviously devoted his skills towards this, and obviously has lived in a society where this would be a valid profession compels me to allow this. The NPCs they go against will usually have pretty decent will saves, so 16 is not incredibly hard to beat, even with three rolls.

When he used it the first time in battle, he peppered a guy with these darts. Each round, putting 1-2 darts in the NPC.

His contention is that each dart gets a will save for the 3 rounds. After the 3rd round, he had 5 darts in him, and was making 5 Fort Saves.

I feel like I should create a more balanced rule, perhaps one save per round, with increasing DC for each dart?

Maybe more drastic, and say one dart or 30, if he makes his Fort Save 3 rounds in a row, he is immune to the poison for a certain period of time.

Again, I want to note that as far as gameplay goes, I think it is VERY valid that he would have ability to create a very powerful poison.


Just looking for everyon'e input and suggestions. This is a major part of his character's abilities, so I don't want to shun it. Its creative, and he has come up with very good background.

 

[Crothian]

If you have access to Quint Rogue, it has, IMHO, the best posion creating rules out there.

 

[mmu1]

Sometimes, as a DM you've got to be a bad guy for the sake of game balance...

You've got a couple of problems, here:

By deviating completely from the basic rules for poison, you're making the poison a lot more difficult to balance. The fact that you're using two different types of saves works in favor of the person being attacked, but having three different will saves greatly increases the poison's potency, way beyond those created using the core rules - there, you get two chances to avoid the full effect, here, you have three chances to fail.

Even if the target has a save so good he'd only fail on a 2, there's a 27% chance he'd end up paralyzed sometime during those three rounds of saves - and that's with one dart only, and a save of +13.
By contrast, with a conventional poison with a DC of 16 and a primary effect of, say, 1d6 temporary Dex loss and secondary effect of paralysis, our friend with the +13 save would only have a 1% chance of failing both saves and getting paralyzed.

The second issue is price and availability.

Consider the effects and price of something like a scroll of Hold Monster, and compare them to the effects of this poison and the price you're charging for it. While the to-hit roll certainly makes things more difficult, you are essentially letting your PC use something with effects more powerful than many spells in the 4th-5th level range two to three times per round. Whathever he's paying to use this poison, I'm pretty sure it isn't enough, if he can afford to pepper people with these things.

The best thing you can do is simply make it a standard poison, using a single saving throw (Fortitude), with a primary effect of temporary stat loss (I'd suggest DEX) and a secondary effect of paralysis, with a save your NPC's have a decent chance of making - so that there's a low, but not insignificant chance that they can drop from a single dart, and a pretty good chance that if they're peppered by a lot of them, they'll either get paralyzed outright or get effectively paralyzed from the combined effects of Dex loss.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Also, don't forget rules on handling posions (application, use, & creation) and the chance for exposure.

 

[Taloras]

Actually, its the Craft(poisons) skill that is used to create poisons.

 

[reapersaurus]

JadeLyon - make sure you read mmu1's post carefuly.
He's exactly right.

You shouldn't make his "powerful" poison use a different mechanic than every other one.
If you want it to be 'powerful', than change the DC up or increase the effect.
But be very careful.

 

[NPC]

I believe that Traps and Treachery has some custom poision creation rules.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Actually, its the Craft(poisons) skill that is used to create poisons.

... a rule for which I have yet to hear a truly compelling argument except that it lets Rogues have it as a class skill. It's not like Alchemy is an over-powered skill, or isn't more appropriate to this application.

Bit of a kludgey rule, if you ask me.

 

[Vaxalon]

In my campaign, you don't Craft poisons, you HARVEST them.

You can harvest poison from one of three places: Either you can take it from the dead body of a monster (i.e. wyvern venom) or you can extract it from rare plants, and those rare plants don't grow in safe places.

This means that the player cannot make up new poisons... he can only encounter ones I've put into the game.

Once that's done, the poison has to be stabilized into a form appropriate to the delivery method. This is where the skill comes in. Craft (poison) works, as does Alchemy (at -2) and Profession (Apothecary). DC is equal to the save DC, and if the roll is botched (failed by 5 or more) in addition to ruining the batch, the preparer (and any assistants) are exposed to the poison.

A more potent form of the poison, with +2 to save DC, can be made using the "masterwork" rules.

 

[reapersaurus]

In my campaign, you don't Craft poisons, you HARVEST them.

You can harvest poison from one of three places: Either you can take it from the dead body of a monster (i.e. wyvern venom) or you can extract it from rare plants, and those rare plants don't grow in safe places

What about milking it from a viper?
As in a viper familiar?