PC discussing strategy while in melee

[shadowthorn]

kreynolds: The rule works much better in practice than it appears to in theory. If the players are aware of the combat environment, the miniatures are all set up, they know their attack bonuses & damage, then six seconds is plenty of time to say, "I attack the orc in front of me". Roll the dice, on to the next fella. The rule is not set in concrete; sometimes situations come up that need clarification, and they are discussed - briefly.

As you set up the combat, jot down the init order, arrange the minis, each player is taking those couple of minutes to decide what to do, so they really have more than six seconds. While the first player describes their action, the second player is using that time to plan; thus player two gets six seconds to think while player one is reacting, plus his own six seconds. Player three gets 18 seconds; player four gets 24. Does that make sense?

Again, it may sound draconian in principle (and my group at the time raised their eyebrows when I announced the rule), but if you try it, you might be surprised. My group never had any problems with it, and very few players ever lost an action because they ran out of time or couldn't decide what to do.

I suppose we can assume that the PCs are all combat geniuses, and that the players are thus entitled to discuss strategy & tactics ad infinitum while in combat, but I enjoy the "adrenaline" effect of eliminating that chatter while the battle rages.

Each gaming group is different; what works for one may not work for another.

 

[kreynolds]

kreynolds: The rule works much better in practice than it appears to in theory.

Yeah, I've decided, that from now on, I'm going to completely hamstring and handicap my players with a stopwatch.

There's a big difference between "crackin' up" and "strategy". I don't mind my players taking a minute to figure out what to do. It builds the scene, and at the end, you have this image of a grand battle. I don't seem to have this horrible problem of taking out several minutes of planning in my games. Maybe it's just me. Who knows.

 

[Churchill]

Six Words

I generally let my player's chatter and strategerize. If, however, they start getting exceedingly specific (or bullying with the less tactically minded), I simply tell them their characters are limited to six word instructions.

(friggin' typo)

 

[shadowthorn]

kreynolds: Well, if it's your perception that the six-second rule completely hamstrings & handicaps the players, then the rule is not for you. If you've never tried it, or observed it, however, then you're basing your conclusion solely upon your imagination. When I introduced this rule, I was very concerned that I might make the game less enjoyable. As a result, I requested a lot of feedback from my players as to how they liked it. I was perfectly prepared to toss the rule out the door if it didn't work.

But the players loved it.

Maybe your group wouldn't; that's fine. I don't assume that your players are pampered & spoiled by your combat system; why would you insist that mine were hamstrung & handicapped?

 

[jgbrowning]

six seconds

anything the player can say in six seconds, as their free action, is what their character can say.

simple really. they get one free action a round to use whenever they want for speach. if they use a free action for something else they cant speak that six seconds.

I make Players mime when thier chars are silenced. If the party says their sneaking, they cant speak. if they do they're not sneaking anymore.

why?
1. makes combat shorter
2. makes each individual player think
3. makes each individual player make stupid mistakes and learn (or not) from them
4. makes combats more deadly
5. intensifies combat
6. brings the game "to life" by making the players pay close attention
7. prevents a HELL of a lot of combat disruptions.
8. prevents the one guy that really knows the rules from acting as a general
9. stops players who dont know as much from becoming pawns to those who do.

joe b.

 

[tburdett]

What Caliban said,

Another thing about this is that the DM also knows what players are planning

If you, as the DM, are using the same rationale that Caliban (PC's have this worked out in advance, game talk merely represents those pre-planned strategies and tactics) is using, you would be a poor DM if you used that knowledge to your advantage.

 

[tburdett]

Seems to me that it all depends on how experienced your players are. Years ago I was playing with a group who knew the rules inside out, so the GM would enforce no talking out of character, no delay in deciding actions, etc. It worked and gave combats and traps an air of urgency. Example: GM: "You open the door and see a glint of light..." Player: "I slam the door!" GM: ("Rats, he avoided my mirror of life-trapping.")

For inexperienced players, however, this method can lead to considerable frustration. If a player is trying a new class, or has just gained a new level, he may not know what his character can do, much less what he should do. I'd suggest that GM's should adapt the rules to the players, tightening things up as the players (and the GM) improve.

I agree. Punishing new players, or players who are learning to play a new class, for no good reason is always a bad idea.

Of course, there are many DM's who frequent these boards who are full of bad ideas.

 

[tburdett]

Yeah, I've decided, that from now on, I'm going to completely hamstring and handicap my players with a stopwatch.

There's a big difference between "crackin' up" and "strategy". I don't mind my players taking a minute to figure out what to do. It builds the scene, and at the end, you have this image of a grand battle. I don't seem to have this horrible problem of taking out several minutes of planning in my games. Maybe it's just me. Who knows.

I'll top that.

I'll borrow an optional game mechanic from Star Fleet Battles and require that the players plot out their actions 4 rounds in advance.

I know that SFB only requires you to plot for 1 turn when using this rule but by expanding that to 4 turns it should really cut down on player interaction!

As an added bonus, the elimination of talking between the players should give me an extra edge during the combats!

After all, I can plan out what ALL of the creatures are all going to do without having to say a word! Even the most insignificant group of goblins or kobolds can exhibit flawless teamwork and execution using my system!

I'll be generous and give them 30 seconds to do this (that's 6 seconds a round, with an extra 6 seconds thrown in because I'm a nice guy!). Any player who can't get their plot done in the alloted time dies! It doesn't get much quicker or simpler than that!

Once their plot sheet is turned in I will require that they leave the room. This isn't required under the SFB rules, but it should prevent any of them from arguing with me. And, as we all know, any time you can cut down on arguing it will speed up the game!

I will move the figures and determine, based upon what they have plotted, what their characters do. Once I have finished with those 4 rounds worth of activity I will allow the players to re-enter the room, study the situation (position, hit points, etc) for 30 seconds and then plot the next 4 rounds.

This should REALLY speed the game up!

 

[kreynolds]

kreynolds: Well, if it's your perception that the six-second rule completely hamstrings & handicaps the players, then the rule is not for you. If you've never tried it, or observed it, however, then you're basing your conclusion solely upon your imagination.

I have tried the rule, and it didn't work. It's a childish rule that brings out the childish behavior from those you impose it upon. What I'm saying is, in a game of adults, it isn't a necessary rule.

Maybe your group wouldn't; that's fine. I don't assume that your players are pampered & spoiled by your combat system;

Oh, they're not. It isn't perfect, but it works. Besides, I don't really do anything special except for avoid say you that you actually get hit on anything less than a critical, but other than that, nothing special.

why would you insist that mine were hamstrung & handicapped?

I didn't.