PC Gen data sets

[thpr]

If the code is really in that bad a shape it's time to dump it and start the 6.0 branch guys. Seriously.

*laughs*

You mean like this?

http://pcgen.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pcgen/branches/cdom/

 

[Michael Morris]

Heh.. I guess.

One of these days I'll get ENW's 2.0 branch done.

 

[TheYeti1775]

Hi Yeti
As Paul said there's nothing preventing you from using the sets in the Alpha folder, the Alpha datasets are designated as such either because they have not had a complete review since they were entered or they is some outstanding issue that is as of yet unresolved. In the case of Dawnforge they are still in Alpha because we have not yet found a decent way to handle the Racial Talents and Transformations. There is new code which in place which will allow us to have a separate tab from which these abilies can be selected the same way feats are (as opposed to pop up choosers) which means it will be possible to change your selection of these abilities at any time. The Dawnforge sets are going to be the testbed data for this new code before we use it on the core sets so look for that early in the next cycle if it does not make it into the next production release.

To answer your last question: we usually get permission from the publisher.

To answer the first question: I'll take your money ;-)

So when do we see the new code?

And I'll see how many bannanas I can throw to the monkey. My CFO (wife) doesn't always release the purse strings for me.

 

[labyrinth]

I would think that the verbosity would only be a slowdown on initial loading of the dataset -- and that after it was parsed into whatever internal format they use there wouldn't be an issue.

In fact, that's the way Hero Lab apparently handles it

I've been learning how all this stuff works by writing my own data files, so I'll chime in here. Hero Lab uses XML for its data files. Hero Lab compiles those data files into a run-time format. This run-time format is optimized for load and run performance. So the overhead cost of XML is only incurred when you add new material, after which that material is re-compiled into a new set of run-time files. Those files then load in an instant and run blazingly fast.

It's a vastly different approach from PCGen. And, for my money, a vastly better solution.

 

[labyrinth]

The major complication is that D&D is a game of exceptions and the PCGen coders haven't thought of a way to handle every exception. XML won't help if the tags aren't supported, dude.

So painfully true. This is one of key reasons I like Hero Lab. It's scripting language allows the easy handling of all the exceptions I've run into so far in creating data files. Doing everything via tags and such requires that the program authors think of all the necessary tags in advance. Whereas, if I have the flexibility to write scripts with my own logic in them, the tool can handle lots of things that the authors never anticipated.

 

[labyrinth]

Since PCGen is free, it is hard to be overpriced. It is still an open source project. If you don't like paying $6 on average for someone else's time to do data entry and support it, do it yourself. The lst files are not that difficult to learn. And yes, I have edited the lst files before. I have used it to create characters.

While PCGen is free, the data files for WotC material are no longer available from CMP, so those files have to be created. The net result is that PCGen is only "free" in terms of DOLLARS. There is also the question of TIME. My time is valuable to me, so I'm going to use a tool that is EASIER and FASTER to create the data files I need. I also prefer a tool that makes it easy for me and others in my group to share the data files we've created.

Since I have to create the files myself, the extra one-time cost of $30 for a tool that saves me vast amounts of time in creating the data files I need is money well-spent. I use the $30 amount, since that's what most of the non-free tools cost. If using PCGen takes me an hour longer to learn and then create data files, I'm better off with another tool.

For me, the easiest tool so far has been Hero Lab. It took no time at all to learn the basics. Admittedly, it took me longer to learn in-depth how to create specialized data files than two of the other tools I tried, but not much longer. Most importantly, it has allowed me to implement things the other tools couldn't readily support. Besides, the Hero Lab UI is MUCH more to my liking than the other tool options, but that's just a personal aesthetics thing.

 

[Skaven_13]

While PCGen is free, the data files for WotC material are no longer available from CMP, so those files have to be created. The net result is that PCGen is only "free" in terms of DOLLARS. There is also the question of TIME. My time is valuable to me, so I'm going to use a tool that is EASIER and FASTER to create the data files I need. I also prefer a tool that makes it easy for me and others in my group to share the data files we've created.

Since I have to create the files myself, the extra one-time cost of $30 for a tool that saves me vast amounts of time in creating the data files I need is money well-spent. I use the $30 amount, since that's what most of the non-free tools cost. If using PCGen takes me an hour longer to learn and then create data files, I'm better off with another tool.

For me, the easiest tool so far has been Hero Lab. It took no time at all to learn the basics. Admittedly, it took me longer to learn in-depth how to create specialized data files than two of the other tools I tried, but not much longer. Most importantly, it has allowed me to implement things the other tools couldn't readily support. Besides, the Hero Lab UI is MUCH more to my liking than the other tool options, but that's just a personal aesthetics thing.

But the point I was trying to make was that the tool known as PCGen could not overpriced because there was no monetary cost involved. And if time is valuable, then the small amount that the datasets cost was definitely a value, as it kept me from entering and testing the data myself.

The best tool is going to be the one that each person is comfortable with. I could probably write a data file in XML just as well as I could write a data file in PCGen's lst format, and I still tool around in Access for eTools.

I looked at hero lab, but I don't really care for the interface, which just comes down to a personal preference.

 

[labyrinth]

But the point I was trying to make was that the tool known as PCGen could not overpriced because there was no monetary cost involved. And if time is valuable, then the small amount that the datasets cost was definitely a value, as it kept me from entering and testing the data myself.

Ah! Sorry for the confusion. I didn't recognize that you were focused on the past (i.e. when you bought all the data sets). I was focused on the situation NOW, where no data sets are available anymore and everyone has to enter their own data, regardless of the tool used. If the data sets were still available, that would be a definite advantage to PCGen. Alas, that advantage has now vaporized, so the ability to easily add custom material has become a critical element for anyone who doesn't play a basic SRD game.

 

[kingpaul]

so the ability to easily add custom material has become a critical element for anyone who doesn't play a basic SRD game.

And I've said it before, YMMV on data entering. I don't find PCGen's method cumbersome, but I have been doing it since the 1.4.x days. We also provide documentation on how to enter items.

 

[Thurbane]

I had a crack at entering custom data for Knight and Beguiler character classes, and I gave up pretty quickly. I have pretty good general IT skills and have done some programming in C++...

Not so much a criticism, but if there are any good tutorials someone could point me to?